Fernando Alonso has won the German GP but only thanks to Felipe Massa. The Brazilian took the lead at the start and remained at the front until Massa as asked to let the Spaniard through because he was faster. Sebastian Vettel completes the podium in third.
raymondu999 wrote:Anyone willing to bet AGAINST a Red Bull pole position?
Depends on how well the McLarens are running. IF, and it's a big if, they get the new diffuser working fairly well then they could push Red Bull close. This circuit doesn't seem to require Red Bull's strengths so McLaren should be closer than Silverstone, for example.
The other variable is the weather. It's most likely to be dry, but if it's wet then I think the McLaren will have an advantage over Red Bull.
Will have to see how Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault fair but I don't think they're going to beat the top two teams just yet.
feynman wrote:
I am pretty sure that most of the ride-height increase still comes from the wet-tyres (they are designed with a larger diameter to naturally raise the car when bolted on).
But I was kinda more curious about the dynamics under the car with the two fluids present (air and water). Do all the equations still stand up? Do the airflows still behave as they would running over water as they do running over dry asphalt?
Can you take a gamble an run a little lower as grounding onto very light surface water is not as upsetting as dry track, or is it worse? (Obviously serious surface water and you are off into the scenery, no questions asked).
Does the water do anything weird to the underfloor pressures and the floor edges, or the ground effects? Does it help enclose and channel the air under the floor, or does it dissipate the underfloor energy and hurt the diffuser?
Or is running in wet such a slippery old random mess, that any or all of the above might be happening, but in real-terms are too subtle or convouluted to worry about, job 1 is just keep the car pointing the right way and going forward, anything else is a bonus.
I see what you mean!
I would imagine that standing water, being considerably more viscous than the air above it would behave vastly differently, and in particular the interface between the air and the standing water would have some very odd effects. Perhaps this is part of the reason that some teams (that understand the interaction and use it to their advantage) run much better in the wet than others (who don't!).
I wonder if a sufficiently optimised diffusor would actually draw standing water through? If so, I wonder if this would show a massive increase in downforce due to the greater mass of the "liquid" being drawn through, resulting in massively variable downforce levels as the vehicle in question goes over patches of damp track and then puddles. OR is the idea of using essentially low pressure air to draw liquid water through a diffusor too far fetched?
I expect some of the aero guys on here will be able to inform.
The answer to the ultimate question, of life, the Universe and ... Everything?
According to Domenicali Ferrari wants a new rule that puts the pressure on the stewards to make a quick decision about cutting corners.
Stefano Domenicali wrote:We will discuss an amendment to the regulations: if the race directors are not involved within 3-4 corners afterwards, the manoeuvre is considered to be correct.
It sounds rather impractical and intrudes on the sovereignty of the stewards. I'll be surprised if he gets his way.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best ..............................organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
oh i remember Barrichello winning on slicks when a last laps raindownpour apeared ..and the fatal year of villeneuve when Pironi had his career ending crash in rainsoaked hockenheim practise (82?).. so yes it happened.
from Formula1.com 2008:
Brakes:
The circuit is one of the hardest tests of the year on brakes, being similar to the demands of Bahrain. Braking stability is vital, especially into the hairpin at Turn Six, where it is easy to lock a wheel, and even more challenging following the removal of electronic braking assistance. The team therefore play close attention to finding the optimum braking and cooling solutions, which was one of the priorities at the pre-Grand Prix test.
Suspension:
The long straights and low-speed corner mix of Hockenheim requires contrasting suspension set-ups. Mechanically, we are able to run the cars quite soft as there are no significant high speed changes of direction on the circuit. Front to rear, we run a forward mechanical bias ie: a stiffer front end, in order to get good traction out of the slow and medium speed corners and keep the rear stable under braking. Indeed, with the braking zone into Turn Six being the main passing opportunity, braking stability is something we work hard to get right.
Tyres:
The demands on the tyres are quite severe and so Bridgestone will supply the hard and medium options from its range. The stress does not come from the lateral load of the corners, but is due to the traction zones and heavy braking required at this circuit. It will be the first time we have raced in Hockenheim with this generation of Bridgestone tyres and so the team made the most of the test last week to begin its tyre evaluation work. Hockenheim in July is also a place were we can expect high track temperatures and, coupled with the heavy traction demands, the team needs to keep a close eye on wear rates for the rear tyres and beware of blistering which will make the car unstable.
hat Tilke einen Straßenbelag gewählt, "der ein mittleres Grip-Niveau ergibt". medium grip level -according to tilke-
tarmac used: Shell Cariphalte Race Track also used in Nurburgring ,Oschersleben ,Fiorano,Malaysia,australia,Bahrain ,china and Katar
Rain is also possible on Saturday, with only a low chance of scattered showers forecast for race-day Sunday.
I hope rain on race day is not erratic. I like wet races, but erratic rain turns the race into a lottery with the pitstops.
Friday and Saturday may mean Mclaren may have trouble testing their new floor and diffuser.
Whitmarsh made the wrong move when he ruled out testing parts on media days. He's going to wish he did what ferrari did when they were testing their new floor.
What id like to see is rain start just as the cars are just about at the hairpin on lap 1. With someone well down the order in P16 having a massive bit of luck having the entire feild in the pits, he passes. Or, what about a Europe 2007 start??? with a Lotus, Virgin or HRT diving into the pits, changing some set up just before the race, then starting in the pits, lets have another Markus Winkelhock moment please, but without the red flag. Let them romp away to almost a lap on everyone thats fast enough in the dry, and have him just about getting caught, and taking the win.
Fairy tail stuff, but lets have some drama, and something that will mess up the drivers standings and constructors championship, something like this for P1 to P10:
P01 = Kovalinenn - Lotus
P02 = Schumacher - Mercedes
P03 = Kubica - Renault
P04 = Webber - Red Bull
P05 = Barrichello - Williams
P06 = Sutil - Force India
P07 = De la Rosa - Sauber
P08 = Massa - Ferarri
P09 = Alguersauri - Toro Rosso
P10 = Kobiyashai - Sauber
ESPImperium wrote:What id like to see is rain start just as the cars are just about at the hairpin on lap 1. With someone well down the order in P16 having a massive bit of luck having the entire feild in the pits, he passes. Or, what about a Europe 2007 start??? with a Lotus, Virgin or HRT diving into the pits, changing some set up just before the race, then starting in the pits, lets have another Markus Winkelhock moment please, but without the red flag. Let them romp away to almost a lap on everyone thats fast enough in the dry, and have him just about getting caught, and taking the win.
Fairy tail stuff, but lets have some drama, and something that will mess up the drivers standings and constructors championship, something like this for P1 to P10:
=D>
let's just wish for it and see what happens! it will be an entertaining race then.....
please ,our specialists for long distance raindance please intensify your efforts...
rain risk is dropping dramatically now to 10%
it seems to get overcast and chilly around 18-20°C ..so the supersofts should be able to perform at least one flyer..
Its not "gone wrong"! Its doing exactly what it is forecast to do! Wet until saturday when it will be fairly sunny, and wet again on sunday. So pole may not mean too much, apart from having clear vision.
just realised that the old circuit is still there and the new one did not happen ...according to google maps....
On this map you can also see what an uninspired design the current circuit is .
the forrest between Jim Clark chicane and third chicaneis anything but flat ,
it would have retained a lot of the orginal character of the track to connect these two points with a twisty upand down(!)section ...
Its not "gone wrong"! Its doing exactly what it is forecast to do! Wet until saturday when it will be fairly sunny, and wet again on sunday. So pole may not mean too much, apart from having clear vision.
Just saw the update forecast. Heavy rain on friday, showers on saturday and dry/cloudy on sunday. But the conditions have a habit of changing fairly rapidly!
