Hamilton vs Button

[raymondu999]

I don't like to look like a Hamilton fanatic but Hamilton messed up the last 2 turns in China Quali. Easily 1.5 to 2 tenths lost

Tbh I never thought Lewis was great at qually. Sure, he's good, and fast, which always makes a good qualifier, but he overdrives too much by locking wheels etc, to be able to unlock the car's ultimate pace over a single lap - which would probably require you to be exactly on the limit, and not over/under

[marcush.]

I hear you...but sorry you are not going to see this happening.We are in normal service already.
Hamilton and Button seem to have decided that one of them has to sacrifice a second set of softs in Q3 to force Seb to do a second run.This time it was Button turn.
So we see two guys working excellent together and respecting each other .
Hamilton has now a good hand for Sundays race with lots of fresh tyres and who knows if Sebs KERS will last or even work for tomorrows start? I think chances are 50/50 for him running into KERS trouble sooner or later.
If I was Hamilton I would clearly try to follow in the tracks of Vettel as good as possible given he loses the start.No tries to go longer as the RedBull is better on Tyres anyways.
As soon as Vettel is hitting drama...he´s there...not much more to it..

[ringo]

I don't like to look like a Hamilton fanatic but Hamilton messed up the last 2 turns in China Quali. Easily 1.5 to 2 tenths lost

Tbh I never thought Lewis was great at qually. Sure, he's good, and fast, which always makes a good qualifier, but he overdrives too much by locking wheels etc, to be able to unlock the car's ultimate pace over a single lap - which would probably require you to be exactly on the limit, and not over/under

You never thought he was great at qualy? Trying to find a weakness? People keep going back and forth with this every-time they see a qualy session where he loses a little. He destroys the field another day, then it's in the race where he's weak.
Did you watch qualifying last week or last year at an time?
He should have went faster in q3 in china, but doesn't means he's not great at it.
If he made no mistakes at all and came behind button by 6 hundreths then you can say he's not great. To make mistakes and miss pole in malaysia only to a redbull in the dying seconds is not mediocre qualifying ability.
It's simply means Vettel is one of the most error free qualifiers.
And as Hamilton said today to Vettel "too easy" is showing how much of a car advantage Vettel is enjoying to not have to take any risks and be perfectly relaxed for qualifying.

[raymondu999]

My point, is that qualifying is not all about speed. Hamilton has the speed to be on pole position. Yes, I agree. But qualifying is also about stringing a single lap together where you make as little mistakes as possible, and carry as much speed as possible. Can he carry speed? Hell yes. But he often makes those little lockups etc.

It's like taking an exam. You may know your stuff, sure, but you have to be able to put it to paper. If you can't, your examiner can't give you marks "because he knows it's in your head"

[ringo]

My point, is that qualifying is not all about speed. Hamilton has the speed to be on pole position. Yes, I agree. But qualifying is also about stringing a single lap together where you make as little mistakes as possible, and carry as much speed as possible. Can he carry speed? Hell yes. But he often makes those little lockups etc.

It's like taking an exam. You may know your stuff, sure, but you have to be able to put it to paper. If you can't, your examiner can't give you marks "because he knows it's in your head"

Qualifying is not all about speed, hehe. Now i've heard everything.

I see no major problem with Hamilton's qualifying at all. The track changed a lot between vettel and Button doing their laps.
I don't know what you're getting at since speed is speed only if you can execute it.

I guess you're saying he can only press down a gas pedal.
And that's what got him 7 pole positions in 2007 over Alonso, one of the best qualifiers on the grid.

This race is more tactical, his car is setup for overtaking and tyre life. His sector 3 times are where we'll see him dispatch Vettel.

The qualifying is pretty good if we consider the sacrifices made to beat the Redbull which is the best at tyre conservation.

P3 can pretty much turn to P1 before 4 laps. Then it's sooth sailing.

first stop, new soft tyre
second stop, new hard tyre

Enough to answer the questions that were hanging from Malaysia. What if Lewis had proper tyres in the 3rd stint?

[raymondu999]

speed is speed only if you can execute it.

Locking up is not "executing it." What I'm saying is, an error-free lap, AND speed is both needed for a qualy lap. You need to minimise the mistakes, AND be fast. F1 is a results game. Lewis is fast, yes. He is able to make error-free laps, yes. But usually in qually he will lock up etc, which will cost him time.

[ringo]

speed is speed only if you can execute it.

Locking up is not "executing it." What I'm saying is, an error-free lap, AND speed is both needed for a qualy lap. You need to minimise the mistakes, AND be fast. F1 is a results game. Lewis is fast, yes. He is able to make error-free laps, yes. But usually in qually he will lock up etc, which will cost him time.

Why not be so critical about the other 23 drivers?

Button can never get tyre temps or keep the rear in check. They are only human beings, and even with errors, Hamilton is still one of the best over a lap with Vettel potentially the most robotic, not fastest, qualifier ever. Why the over criticism?

Locking up just means the car doesn't have enough grip to keep the wheels rotating. That means the car is a little over the limit.
Vettel doesn't need to put the redbull over the limit.
He'll probably reach his limits before the car does.

Button locks up a lot as well, so no one driver out there, aside from vettel (who still made a huge error in Aus Q3) who's not making some slight error in qualifying.

[raymondu999]

If you read my post, you'll know I wasn't criticising Hamilton. I'm not saying he's worse than the other 23. He's one of the best. I just said he's not a GREAT qualifier. Locking up is going over the limit, which is probably slower than going under the limit slightly. It's demonstrating in fact that you're overconfident in the car, or overestimating the car's grip

[Tamburello]

And as Hamilton said today to Vettel "too easy" is showing how much of a car advantage Vettel is enjoying to not have to take any risks and be perfectly relaxed for qualifying.

LOL but he would say that, wouldn't he...it's like Button, he's never slower than anyone; there's always something wrong with the car's 'set up'.

But he's right in a way. There's no such practical thing as a 'fast machine' or 'fast driver'. F1 is and always has been about the fastest car/driver combination.

[PlatinumZealot]

Out quaalifying a 2xWDC in your rookies season
out qualifying a 10 yr experience wdc i 75% of the races...

if that's is not great, then i don't know what is.

the only advantage i would give vettel over hamilton is keeping it together. that's not hard to do when you have the fastest car. in terms of raw speed and pace - i think vettel is the next kimi - fast until you put him next to a top driver.

[forty-two]

Gentlemen, just my tuppence for whoever wants (or doesn't) to hear it.

I have been enormously impressed with the way that both Mr Hamilton and Mr Button have handled themselves since being team-mates. Isn't it refreshing to see them both getting along so well? I wondered for a while if it was for real, but seeing them interviewed together tells me that they're not putting it on, it seems real at least. Surely that's something to admire?

As for a comparison between the two, Jenson undoubtedly has the legs on Lewis in terms of tyre preservation and playing the long game, but I suspect that Lewis has the raw "do-or-die" attitude which Jenson appears sometimes to lack.

As for quali ability, this is a tough one. Lewis could probably snatch a pole (if only Red Bull would let them!) from Jenson on say 75% of occasions, but let's not forget that these days, especially since the introduction of Pirreli as tyre manufacturer, qualifying is not the end of the story. True, Lewis might be able to string together a super hot lap, perhaps over two runs, but would he have enough tyres left afterwards to finish a race in a good position? I for one am doubtful.

Either way, my loyalties to both men concerned are torn. I respect them both as fantastic drivers, and gentelman racers and long may their partnership continue.

They have, for me at least been the best pairing which McLaren have had in the whole time I have been watching F1. As Marcush has said, if one can't deliver, the other usually does, and that's what puts pound notes in the pocket of McLaren!

[speedsense]

The true test of RBR's edge will be if someone gets in front of Vettel OR at least keeps the gap in check. It will be a different race if that happens...

The two races prior have had circumstances happening behind Vettel, that have allowed the gap.... So far he's be able to control his race pace from a relatively easy (for an F1 driver race leader) position and go into conservation mode early.

Hamilton breaking his splitter after a longer tire stint that Vettel in Aussie

N. Heidfield taking the second spot in the first corner at Malaysia holding up Hamilton.

Yes, Vettel's car is fast but at least someone keep him honest and make him use the car and the tires...
Hopefully this race comes out that way...IMHO

[PlatinumZealot]

And it did speedsense! The Boss outfoxing Button with Smarts, skill and speed!

[Gerhard Berger]

The move on turn 1 was very daring, and he did a great job to pull it off on the end. He should be glad that it was his teammate - i think if it had been someone like Alonso or Webber they may have cut his nosecone off.

[PlatinumZealot]

Yeah, he knows Button is a softie.