BMW returning to F1?

[Just_a_fan]

I beg to differ. For instance, the engine. 9.000rpm V8, 125hp per litre vs a turbocharged engine will never really give the same tingly feeling.

Just check all the reviews on the cars. Mclaren´s car is superior but it´s "dead" no soul because it´s so competent.

The Ferrari still has that edge, that rawness.

I couldn´t care less what badge is on the front of the car. Ferrari has always made these types of cars, Mclaren has built one and that wasn´t a Mclaren engine in that one.

Same with Porsche, arguably the best drivers cars in the world but still doesn´t have that "soul" like a 458 has or 430 scuderia. To sterile which makes the car dead.

Still an awsome car though.

Can you just confirm that you have driven all of these cars on real roads...?

[HampusA]

The MP4 spanks the livin crap out of a 458 in all departments except one, soul, aliveness etc.

When/where did you test drive the mp4-12c?

When measuring performance you don´t actually have to drive the car. There are performance tests done and it is faster in all categories, Mclaren went ballistic with this car.
The car is built way more advanced right from the start. More comparable to the Enzo and Lexus LF-A.

[HampusA]

I beg to differ. For instance, the engine. 9.000rpm V8, 125hp per litre vs a turbocharged engine will never really give the same tingly feeling.

Just check all the reviews on the cars. Mclaren´s car is superior but it´s "dead" no soul because it´s so competent.

The Ferrari still has that edge, that rawness.

I couldn´t care less what badge is on the front of the car. Ferrari has always made these types of cars, Mclaren has built one and that wasn´t a Mclaren engine in that one.

Same with Porsche, arguably the best drivers cars in the world but still doesn´t have that "soul" like a 458 has or 430 scuderia. To sterile which makes the car dead.

Still an awsome car though.

Can you just confirm that you have driven all of these cars on real roads...?

Not a Mclaren but 458 and GT3RS (997.2)

Watch the reviews, english guys that should be biased since the car is english says themselves that it is superior but they would still probably choose the 458 because of what i said.
It´s a totally different car then the Mclaren and GT3RS.

[HampusA]

How are they supposed to link their F1 programme with their road cars when neither engine is built by Mclaren?

The current F1 engine isn't theirs of course but in 2013 they might have their own - that's the point. The -12C's engine is designed by McLaren even if they got someone else to cast it and put the bits together. Expect that to chnage in the future too IMO.

I think as partnership with BMW can only be benefitial, They have history (not a bad one aswell)
BMW has the credentials, they are certified engine builders with alot of respect from other manufacturers so i can´t see anything bad in it at all.

It's only good for BMW if anyone. McLaren are aiming to be a serious manufacturer in their own right. Being linked with a competitor from a lower sector isn't good for them.

But i can see Mclaren´s point of view in building their own engines and maybe even F1 engines in the future.

That was rather my point - from 2013 the opportunity will exist and they are more likely than any other team to be able to carry it through.

Key word is "they might". We don´t know so we can´t just assume they will have their own F1 engine.

BMW doesn´t need Mclaren for anything, the only reason they would deliver engines for Mclaren is money.
BMW is just as respected and has just as much racing history as Mclaren. Probably more because they have raced in all types of motorsports and won all kinds of titles.

"lower sector" - What does that even mean?

[alelanza]

The MP4 spanks the livin crap out of a 458 in all departments except one, soul, aliveness etc.

When/where did you test drive the mp4-12c?

When measuring performance you don´t actually have to drive the car. There are performance tests done and it is faster in all categories, Mclaren went ballistic with this car.
The car is built way more advanced right from the start. More comparable to the Enzo and Lexus LF-A.

Yeah I agree, performance comes from numbers. I was more interested in your 'soul, aliveness' bit, I find it embarrasing that every 1.1 secs someone in the intardwebs makes quotes like that about a car they've never driven just because they watch top gear.

[HampusA]

Yea it´s just that the engine, the mid-engine layout, the directness, the noise, the rawness of the car even though we are seeing Ferrari slightly moving away from this it´s still sreaming at you to and just want nothing more then to get flogged.

It´s a different car then a Porsche which is better in imo, pure driver´s car. But it´s honed down to perfection, everything is so good and so competent that it becomes "dead" sort of. More like a machine that does everything brilliantly but less like something alive.

That is also something that i think Ferrari distance themselves from the rest no matter if your talking Zonda.
The exhaust noise makes you believe the car is alive, a monster, it crackles, the 458 burbles on downshifts etc. Goosebumps

When hearing the MP4 on the net it´s linear sound etc, not very exciting even though the sound itself is ok.
For me Ferrari´s are alive, Porsche´s and other cars just feels like a very competent machine.

I have no answer to why this is but i can assure you that it´s not just because there´s a Ferrari badge on the front and sides of the car. That´s BS straight up.

Watch alot of comparisons from magazines, even though the Ferrari might not be the fastest or do something the best, 99% of the time they choose the Ferrari.

[HampusA]

Some thought like when introducing a double clutch transmission it would take away from the thump you get when changing gears like a electro hydralic gearbox like in the 430 and M5 for instance.

Porsche got one (haven´t tried it though) and it just changes gears as fast as possible. Much like a DSG or the one in the Bugatti. They are "dead" gearboxes, doing it´s job but not giving something back to the driver when he changes gear, the boxes are to quick.
(now obviously i haven´t driven a Veyron but you don´t need to for that, just check videos to see what i mean)

Ferrari introduced theirs and instead of the super competent super smooth shift you get a nice little thump while still shifting as fast. In the M3 i believe you can even choose how big of a thump you want.

[alelanza]

It´s a different car then a Porsche which is better in imo, pure driver´s car. But it´s honed down to perfection, everything is so good and so competent that it becomes "dead" sort of. More like a machine that does everything brilliantly but less like something alive....


....The exhaust noise makes you believe the car is alive, a monster, it crackles, the 458 burbles on downshifts etc. Goosebumps

When hearing the MP4 on the net it´s linear sound etc, not very exciting even though the sound itself is ok.
For me Ferrari´s are alive, Porsche´s and other cars just feels like a very competent machine...

What episode of top gear did you rip these quotes from? careful, the bbc may just sue you

[HampusA]

Rip what? I´ve driven the 458 and GT3RS..
MP4 i´ve studied pretty much all reviews of it, fantastic car it seems.