Is Hamilton desperate or what?

[speedsense]

Yea through countback myurr.

F1 equivalent of penalties.

So that doesn't count? Through the official way of judging who beat who Hamilton beat Alonso. Unfortunately the JohnsonsEvilTwin method of scoring championships isn't recognised by anyone else.

So 109 points vs 109 points and you can conclude that one driver is superior to the other?
Alright if YOU can, I cannot though. And as a Follower of neither driver I feel my judgement not to be clouded on this issue, I take you support Hamilton, hence his 109 points is better, and you say the FIA method vindicates this(which they do).
However many millions of Alonso fans will tell you his 109 points to be the better becuase he earned the by fighting the very team he drove for!

As I say, Im indiffernet. Im a Kobayashi Raikkonen Hakkinen and Senna fan(Schumacher too in his benneton days).
My vested interest in Hamilton is seeing a Mercedes engined car win. And I love it when he does. But this stuff of him being a "great" etc is utter nonsense.
He is on the path to it, dont pre empt his greatness before it befalls him!

I cannot say fairer than that...........

greatness only seems to befall those after their deeds are long done with...Schumi was once great, will he be great again? We won't know that until after he retires for the second time, in what, two years from now. Though with him, the greatness of his achievement in F1 still lingers and will be for quite a while.
Performing great feats is far from having greatness...same goes for a hero. He ain't a hero while doing the act, only after it...IMHO.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Kind of what Im saying speedsense, yes.

Also there are other drivers around Hamilton who also have the ability, just not the hardware. Over time, we will see.

[speedsense]

Kind of what Im saying speedsense, yes.

Also there are other drivers around Hamilton who also have the ability, just not the hardware. Over time, we will see.

In my mind, just to be in F1 in today's time, you have to have the ability. A lot of money helps, but not like it used to be....

Driver's are separated by very small amounts of talent. Cars tend to be separated, except by a few, by large amounts of talent. It is when all the small things add up that, that the talent of a driver shows itself. The "package" of a driver so to speak.
Hamilton does not have the whole package yet, but what he does have works very well and in my opinion beyond his experience in F1. When the day comes and he gets the whole package put together, he will be a dominating driver. He is gaining on that very fast indeed....
I work with drivers all the time, over 60 different ones. Never have I seen a driver, with passing skills that Hamilton has, and what he gets away with and continues to do so, without crashing people and/or himself, out of a race. It just makes me marvel at it and is so uncanny. He's going to crash somebody out eventually or is he just that good? You don't go this long on luck....

[marcush.]

Hamilton 1st
Button 2nd
In what we see as the second best car in the championship.
Is Hamilton driving Vettel and Webbo into mistakes? yes at times but surely not in every race.Alonso won and took valuable points away as well.

But for sure the tendency of REDBULL not being able to maximise their points haul again and again is the reason why MACS is now in front with both cars.

For sure we must not forget that it took Hamilton quite a few races to overtake Button in the scorelist as well ...

None of them is a great at this time ...sorry . I would like to see Schumacher as such but have to admit he is not.. at this time .

Ayrton Senna was sticking the Mclaren or Williams on pole every weekend not many times he lost a qualy duel against a team mate

just compare the numbers of Senna in his career to Hamilton

http://f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/ASenna

http://f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/LHamilton

and you have to admit in no ways Lewis was even close to be in the same league in achievements ,given the weapons he had in hand so far.

there were some cases of rookies coming into F1 in really competitive machinery:
Damon Hill
Jaques Villeneuve
Hamilton
Coulthard
Montoya
Kubica
Raikkonen (albeit 1 year at Sauber--but then had only driven a handful of races before F1)

Of all those Hamilton compares best with Villeneuve with almost winning title in first year and bagging the trophy in the second...so Villeneuve is an all time hero?

[andrew]

Hill started with Brabham, not Williams and I would hardly class Sauber or BMW as consistently competitve.

[ringo]

he is not at the moment. And how could he be desperate? He get fantastic gifts, even from places he could have never imagined. To mention a few:

1. Turkey. The two bulls collide gifting his the win. Not without the help of McLaren who stopped Button from overtaking him.

They colided on their own then? And Button was hot on the redbull's heels?
Blindly skip over the facts.

2. a few starts when he gained extraordinary places

becuase of good launch and car placement. Button did this in silverstone.

3. Canada. 2 backmakers totally screwed up Alonso gifting LH a win he did not deserve.

Alonso was Boss food, backmarkers or not. He would have been passed on the next lap.
Hamilton was not gifted the win. Alonso would have been gifted because of Hamilton's poor pitstop.

4. Valencia. well, no need to say anything here

a good strong drive, would have been second and Alonso third, without the SC. Poor start by Alosno; seems he's starts to sweat whenever hamilton is near him on the grid .

5. Silverstone. Takes out Vettel, but God said LH's front wing will not be damaged. Also, Alonso makes real bad start.

Vettel took his self out, watch race edit on formula1.com

6. His main competitors have many misfortunes (The bulls, Alonso....)

becuase they're not good enough!

7. has been given a few warnings by the stewards, but no penalty so far.

That's the only way he can be beaten, penalties. Alonso loves to cry for justice, he never took matters in his own hands on the track when it comes to Hamilton, in the last 4 years. hamilton even owned him last year, with a couple overtakes, when the 2 of them were battling in crap cars at the back of the grid.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Hamilton's idol is Senna. Senna had none, nothing else needs to be said on that.

[ringo]

Hamilton 1st
Button 2nd
In what we see as the second best car in the championship.
Is Hamilton driving Vettel and Webbo into mistakes? yes at times but surely not in every race.Alonso won and took valuable points away as well.

But for sure the tendency of REDBULL not being able to maximise their points haul again and again is the reason why MACS is now in front with both cars.

For sure we must not forget that it took Hamilton quite a few races to overtake Button in the scorelist as well ...

None of them is a great at this time ...sorry . I would like to see Schumacher as such but have to admit he is not.. at this time .

Ayrton Senna was sticking the Mclaren or Williams on pole every weekend not many times he lost a qualy duel against a team mate

just compare the numbers of Senna in his career to Hamilton

http://f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/ASenna

http://f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/LHamilton

and you have to admit in no ways Lewis was even close to be in the same league in achievements ,given the weapons he had in hand so far.

there were some cases of rookies coming into F1 in really competitive machinery:
Damon Hill
Jaques Villeneuve
Hamilton
Coulthard
Montoya
Kubica
Raikkonen (albeit 1 year at Sauber--but then had only driven a handful of races before F1)

Of all those Hamilton compares best with Villeneuve with almost winning title in first year and bagging the trophy in the second...so Villeneuve is an all time hero?

Senna had the very best of machinery, when he was succesful though. So had Alonso.
Alonso would be pretty average if we delete 2005 and 2006. That Renault and michelins gave him more advantages than hamilton ever had with f duct or kers.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

When Hamilton does poorly, do you not list excuses ringo?

Or to use your measurement is he "not good enough"?

To say Alonso was anything other than unlucky in Silverston is pretty harsh
And how did Hamiltons wing stay intact? Not for the first time it must be said!
I guess he is so good, he knows the amount of speed to carry into a tyre so that the wing wont break?

Hamilton gets the rub of the green too........

[andrew]

Hamilton still won in the best car. The last person to win in nit the best car must be the either Schumacher in 2000 or Raikonen in 2005.

[Pierce89]

Hamilton 1st
Button 2nd
In what we see as the second best car in the championship.
Is Hamilton driving Vettel and Webbo into mistakes? yes at times but surely not in every race.Alonso won and took valuable points away as well.

But for sure the tendency of REDBULL not being able to maximise their points haul again and again is the reason why MACS is now in front with both cars.

For sure we must not forget that it took Hamilton quite a few races to overtake Button in the scorelist as well ...

None of them is a great at this time ...sorry . I would like to see Schumacher as such but have to admit he is not.. at this time .

Ayrton Senna was sticking the Mclaren or Williams on pole every weekend not many times he lost a qualy duel against a team mate

just compare the numbers of Senna in his career to Hamilton

http://f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/ASenna

http://f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/LHamilton

and you have to admit in no ways Lewis was even close to be in the same league in achievements ,given the weapons he had in hand so far.

there were some cases of rookies coming into F1 in really competitive machinery:
Damon Hill
Jaques Villeneuve
Hamilton
Coulthard
Montoya
Kubica
Raikkonen (albeit 1 year at Sauber--but then had only driven a handful of races before F1)

Of all those Hamilton compares best with Villeneuve with almost winning title in first year and bagging the trophy in the second...so Villeneuve is an all time hero?

Senna had the very best of machinery, when he was succesful though. So had Alonso.
Alonso would be pretty average if we delete 2005 and 2006. That Renault and michelins gave him more advantages than hamilton ever had with f duct or kers.

The Renault was not the fastest car of 2005(Mclaren) or 2006(Ferrari). Hami has had a good car every year(only the second half of last year). For both of them this the 4th season with a winnng car. Alnso 05 06 07 10 , hami 07 08 09 10

alonso won one race in 04 and 08, but in pathetic cars.

[andrew]

The Renault's mass damper system gave it a huge advantage.

[Pierce89]

Hamilton still won in the best car. The last person to win in nit the best car must be the either Schumacher in 2000 or Raikonen in 2005.

Raikonen had easily the fastwst car in 2005. It was just unreliable but it won 10 races to Renault's 7

[Pierce89]

The Renault's mass damper system gave it a huge advantage.

The Mass damper was 06 but the ferrari was faster

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Senna had the very best of machinery, when he was succesful though. So had Alonso.
Alonso would be pretty average if we delete 2005 and 2006. That Renault and michelins gave him more advantages than hamilton ever had with f duct or kers.

[-X
Senna did his time ringo! in a Toleman then a Lotus.

He nearly beat Prost in a Toleman too! But the FIA took that away from him.
How does that compare to Hamilton who has had a winning Mclaren in each of his 4 season in F1?
And Senna has the distinction of beating a three time champ hands down in 1988.
Not finishing level on points. BEAT him.

Hamilton went straight to a top team much like Villenuve.