The end of domination: Is Red Bull becoming desperate?

[raymondu999]

Aha. Right. Sorry. I thought your comment was in reply to Pup making the distinction between diversified marketing/products.

It's a bit relevant I think. If the Red Bull GmbH drinks company goes under, then RBR will cease to be as it is. On that note - what's such a fanboyish coment about it? I mean, Pup obviously feels that as a business strategy, Red Bull GmbH are better off diversifying. Doesn't say anything of what he thinks of any race teas

[Pierce89]

Wow only on here could a thread with Red Bull in the title be turned into a Mclaren thread,

[Pup]

It doesn't take a millionaire to see the difference between a diversified marketing strategy and a diversified product range.

You missed my point.

I was responding to Pups irrelevant fanboy comment.

"But if it happens - and since the company has mind-bogglingly refused to diversify - then the money for all the sports franchises disappears"

I didn't realise we were talking about how to run a business. F1 forum is it not????

This place is starting to look like planetf1. Fanboys galore.

I love how someone with two posts complains how the site has changed.

I'm sorry I didn't get to read this reply of yours before the mods deleted it. I'm sure it would have changed my life.

[Maelstrom]

The Mugello test isn't far away and if Red Bull has some good upgrades planned they could well close the gap to the Mclarens. Their race pace is not that bad at all.

But the way they are after Merc and their F-duct.. it has me wondering. If they decide to emulate Merc and try their own version it might be all up in the air. Could work for them and could backfire.

[raymondu999]

or maybe they're super keen to get it banned so that the others would have wasted time.

[WhiteBlue]

What a base less speculation. There is no indication whatsoever for Red Bull's core business to decline. People have been drinking Coke and other nasty drinks for more than 130 years. Why should they suddenly stop doing it now?

Looking at this issue with an educated mind the first criticism that comes up is that cars are much more likely to go into crisis than any funny drinks. At the moment we have exploding fuel prices again, which is much more damaging for Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari than it will be for Red Bull.

Red Bull have simply studied Ferrari's advertising concept and have shown that you can use it for anything else and not only for motor related products. I have already pointed to the fact that Red Bull had team ownership by shares in Sauber for at least 15 years. That is much longer than any mid fielder except Williams. Heck it is longer than Mercedes even. And their investment is making them a ton of money. In the last three season they have beaten everybody including Ferrari in terms of product visibility and representation in the FOM broadcast. If you do a valuation of the advertising time they have grabbed you can immediately see that they have a net profit from running their two teams.

It shows how baseless the kind of above speculation is. There is no reason for Red Bull to fail in the market. There is no reason For Red Bull Racing to abandon a successful marketing strategy. Why should they? Ferrari continues despite being beaten in their own game. It is very short sighted to suggest Red Bull will stop doing what they do successfully. IMO the whole desperation issue is wishfull thinking of fan's who support other teams.

[raymondu999]

WB I don't think anyone is asserting that Red Bull GmbH is about to fail. But they're asking whether or not Red Bull Racing is desperate (as opposed to whether Red Bull GmbH is)

[WhiteBlue]

WB I don't think anyone is asserting that Red Bull GmbH is about to fail. But they're asking whether or not Red Bull Racing is desperate (as opposed to whether Red Bull GmbH is)

The question is equally baseless. As long as there is drama and change people will watch the races and Red Bull Racing will be profitable. If they had a lemon like Ferrari that can only win in the rain perhaps there would be concern, but desperation is wishful thinking of fanboys IMO. In 2009 Brawn were much more dominant than McLaren is today. Red Bull ran them a very competitive season that went down to the last but race. Do you think the same outfit will get a nervous break down and give up in desperation three years later? Wishful thinking to anybody who has more than a cursory understanding of the sport!

[raymondu999]

If they had a lemon like Ferrari that can only win in the rain perhaps there would be concern

First off - for the record; I don't think Red Bull are desperate. But Red Bull haven't shown to be able to win; wet or dry. At least Ferrari has won a race, albeit wet and a lottery.

In 2009 Brawn were much more dominant than McLaren is today.

Have numbers to back that up? I'm not saying they weren't - but I'm just asking.

Red Bull ran them a very competitive season that went down to the last but race.

I think McLaren is a bit better equipped to sustain a season-long challenge.

[WhiteBlue]

In 2009 Brawn were much more dominant than McLaren is today.

Have numbers to back that up? I'm not saying they weren't - but I'm just asking.

If memory serves me right Brawn had one second in hand at Barcelona before the season began. That was reduced as the season went on but it took Red Bull - their nearest competitor - at least six races to come out with a double diffusor.

McLaren have some tenths in qualifying atm and a significantly smaller figure in race pace. In fact the race pace could be worse depending of the track characteristic. Are those numbers good enough for a 2009/2012 comparison? I'm not denying that McLaren have the car to beat this season. I'm just saying that talk of desperation for their nearest competitor makes no sense. We are not going to have a totally wet season with all the luck on Ferrari's side! I hope we will agree on that.

[raymondu999]

I remember Jenson went 7 tenths quicker than anyone on his installation lap. That Brawn was quick in the race though - in race pace it was probably quicker (relative to the field) than it was in qualifying pace.

[WhiteBlue]

The Brawn was so good that even Rubens for some time though he would become WDC in it. That says more about the domination than any number.

[raymondu999]

It was a very good car - it even allowed the pre-rebirth Jenson to win the WDC.

In any case we're digressing. But like I said - Brawn had much less to hold onto their domination with. Also, there was a clear path in 2009 for what had to be done (for Red Bull) - install the DDD.

[WhiteBlue]

How is that any different to this season? Red Bull need to look into why McLaren's exhaust solution is better and copy Merc's F-duct wings. I still see no cause for desperation for a logical mind.

[GrizzleBoy]

How is that any different to this season? Red Bull need to look into why McLaren's exhaust solution is better and copy Merc's F-duct wings. I still see no cause for desperation for a logical mind.

What are you basing this on and how do you know that the exhaust system is what is making the difference?

What if McLarens exhaust system is actually "inferior", but the exhaust isn't actually the difference maker thanks to the regulation changes and the McLaren is just better elsewhere?