Is Hamilton desperate or what?

[andrew]

I say desperate and rattled by Button.

Nuff said.

Haha, you wish. Look up. Oh maybe you shouldn't. Some people really love turning their faces away from the FACTS.

You have to admit, he has made a couple bad calls this year so far with the tyres which didn't happen last year. It would be understandable if he is rattled. The reigning WDC joins the team and starts getting better results. It would be difficult not to be rattled by that.

Anyway, last post of the day.

[ringo]

So something is up with Hamilton, and I think his name is Button.

You wish. Kudos to Jenson for those edgy calls rightfully earning him 2 wins, but the most whe has achieved so far in the dry is 8th place. He has a lot of way to go to prove himself against Lewis, which he can't - because simply Lewis is faster and more skilled than him. And in the dry races (of which the majority of a season consists of) favors speed and skill rather than strategic calls.

I'm not a fanboy of either (really any driver .. I like them all for different reasons), but I will point out that Button also out qualified Hamilton on Saturday in perfect conditions. So I think this discussion has pretty much evolved into fan boy ying yang.

I was trying to have a serious discussion about the senseless risks (IMO) that Hamilton has been displaying this year, that's all.

Yeah Button is so much faster, lol, he outqualied hamilton by 0.03s when Hamilton made many mistakes.
Not to knock button, good job in quali when it counts. But don't get too comfortable, Lewis is clearly 3.5 tenths faster than button any day of the week. I didn't believe it myself, because even Heiki was at most 2.5 tenths slower. Lewis' car bottomed out, he missed a couple apexes and messed up his lap and Button only mustered a couple hundreths on the guy.
Not only that, but strangely he did not return to park the car in the pits to take a break, so that could have unsettled him.
Even vettel makes those mistakes against webber.
I wont go around saying Webber will out qualify Vettel 50% of the time. Neither am i going to believe Button will out qualify Hamilton most of the time. Or even have a advantage in the rain. Why are people afraid of Button in the rain?

Any race with purely rain, no hap hazard scattered showers, Hamilton is a shark and all other drivers are little fish.

[Mr Alcatraz]

"The Boss" has had a posture of freneticism (I may have just made that word up) since he joined the show.
It's his style. It doesn't always serve his best interest. I don't know what started this thread. I refuse to read anymore than what is on this page.
The guy deserves some props for his last race. Let's wait until he does something really obtuse before we start slagging him!

[Ray]

Hamilton this, Lewis that blah blah blah. Dudes waaaay faster than most, but he has zero wins and doesn't have the WDC lead and has been outqualified on paper and outscored on paper by his teammate. I think Lewis is miles ahead of everybody save Alonso and Vettel, but his teammate is producing results. That gets you paid, that gets you the trophy, that gets your picture in the morning paper. What else is there to be said? He needs to stop making those mistakes Ringo correctly identifies and show just how bad he is able to crush the field. I admire his talents immensly and respect his abilities immensely and he's one of the top three out there, now he needs to act like it. Put together the whole package and smash the field. We know he can do it, he shows the world every weekend.

[ringo]

I got to admit, button is wiser and more stable in terms of nerves. Mental challenges are tougher than physical ones. If Hamilton doesn't learn how to watch the weather and feel the track (not in terms of finding grip, but in terms of know how long the track can maintain certain conditions such as how wet it will get in 2 laps time) he may be ending up with the short end of the strategy again. His race engineer is also as indecisive as well.
I also have a feeling Lewis over competitiveness is to blame for some of his poor choices. He didn't say it, but i think he came in to pit initially because he saw the red bulls coming in.
He knew they were the faster car and wanted to stick with them for the race. Unknowing he doubted Button's choice, maybe thinking Button's luck ran out.
Common sense should have told him Button is an easier target than the red bulls. Guy should have followed his teammate.

I am kind of glad Lewis lost to Button in these first races. Shows he is lacking in some tools (not the ones people commonly bash him for). And not most drivers posses these tools, it seems only Kubica and Button have the tactics. Hamilton can learn this now and use it for later.

[Ray]

I am kind of glad Lewis lost to Button in these first races. Shows he is lacking in some tools (not the ones people commonly bash him for). And not most drivers posses these tools, it seems only Kubica and Button have the tactics. Hamilton can learn this now and use it for later.

I am too, but not for the various bullshit reasons I'm accused of. I'm hard on Lewis because I know he can achieve a level of greatness that could possibly be unmatched. This kind of thing can only make him better and who doesn't want to see someone get that much more dangerous to the rest of the field?

I think your assessment of his not seeming to have the ability to read a race and the conditions is really looking like it's hurting him badly. He's made that mistake quite a few times this season and last season and it single-handedly lost him his 1st championship. He's set to seek and destroy all the time, and I think that has proved his undoing since his debut in 2007. He hasn't seem to learn to rein that in and kill when the time is right and hang back a feel out a situation. It makes for great entertainment and as much praise he gets for it, earned of course, he's not gotten results from his aggression. His calm and cool teammate is outperforming him right now, though that will probably change after getting back to Europe. He can't rely on his outstanding talent alone, that will NOT win you a championship and win you races. Look at Alonso, with 4 stops and a drive through he was what, 11 seconds or so behind Button at the end? Even with Buttons off a few laps from the end he would have been about 15-16 seconds behind. That's a champions drive, not driving through the gravel to the pits like Lewis did. That's a rookie move and unbespoke of a champion. Seems now that Alonso and Button may be the only two that have the ability to read a race and current conditions to come out on top and Lewis really needs to learn that quick. It'll continue to bite him in the ass if he doesn't.

[Shrieker]

@ringo ,

I concur, Hamilton is pumping too much blood to his muscles, and not enough to his brain (doesn't mean he lacks the 'brains' though). It's just a matter of approach. Other guys push a little less and think a bit more - if Lewis can learn how to keep his speed while using his brains he might end up being nigh on untouchable.

[Giblet]

Button is the tortoise, THE BOSS is the Hare.

I think we all know how and why that story worked out in the Tortoise's favor. Keeping your head down and getting the business done best you can do is all you can do. Assume you got nothing on your opponent.

Being the Hare, and having a couple 10ths per lap on the Tortoise, doesn't meant that if you leave later (worse quali) you'll be able to catch up for the end before burning out your pink little feet on the hard pavement.

[ringo]

@ringo ,

I concur, Hamilton is pumping too much blood to his muscles, and not enough to his brain (doesn't mean he lacks the 'brains' though). It's just a matter of approach. Other guys push a little less and think a bit more - if Lewis can learn how to keep his speed while using his brains he might end up being nigh on untouchable.

Now i didn't lewis is dumb like most think. He has to be very intelligent to be doing what he is doing. No fool can be that clinical on the track. He is a smart guy, however he is not tactical or savvy as Button.
In fact, no other driver is as tactical when it comes to choices.
I am not jumping on the Button bandwagon, and i still think Hamilton will beat him this year with one hand tied behind his back, but it doesn't hurt him if he learns more. You can never learn too much. He will be complete if he takes what Button has. It's not hard for him to learn it either. He already has the talent that you have to be born with, others can't learn that.

[Mr Alcatraz]

@ringo ,

I concur, Hamilton is pumping too much blood to his muscles, and not enough to his brain (doesn't mean he lacks the 'brains' though). It's just a matter of approach. Other guys push a little less and think a bit more - if Lewis can learn how to keep his speed while using his brains he might end up being nigh on untouchable.

Now i didn't lewis is dumb like most think. He has to be very intelligent to be doing what he is doing. No fool can be that clinical on the track. He is a smart guy, however he is not tactical or savvy as Button.
In fact, no other driver is as tactical when it comes to choices.
I am not jumping on the Button bandwagon, and i still think Hamilton will beat him this year with one hand tied behind his back, but it doesn't hurt him if he learns more. You can never learn too much. He will be complete if he takes what Button has. It's not hard for him to learn it either. He already has the talent that you have to be born with, others can't learn that.

Ring',
I don't think any serious contributor has made any viable assertions that the boss is dumb, or stupid.



I respect arguements like Ray's, and other things I have iterated in the past:

A) He read the race really well if he's on the poll. (So do alot of guys}
B) Most guys get out of the way at the start when he starts behind p10!
C) Is reactive when he should be directive.D) Drives a McLaren that (if he drove it like Button would seem like a luxury ride) when in fact it is defective in that one manner. It doesn't matter if you have two drivers that can handle what ever balance that they throw at them.
That car has limits. Limits that will not work as well during full dry (unless they quali on the front row)!!!
E) I think it's anybody's championship including Renault!
They cold make things nasty for RB engine-wise!!! The Russians and the French have been very close ever since GB started kissing our ass (after we got done kissing their ass). just really giving the brit's their props. and their Aussies, and Kiwi's and Indian's

....

[myurr]

It does amuse me that after two good calls, that really could have gone either way, Button is now being heralded as a genius and people are criticising Hamilton and saying he's not that tactically smart.

Wonder what you all would have been saying had Button been wrong on one of those calls.

And it's wrong to single out Hamilton when he's made similar calls to the bulk of the field. For example in China he made the same call as Alonso and Schumacher, the two most successful drivers on the grid. Are those drivers tactically deficient?

If Button is still right there in the championship battle by the last few races through tactical wizardry in a few more races then, and only then, do I think we can call it. Fact is that at the moment he's in the lead but it is still a slender lead that one wrong call or bad result in the next couple of races will more than overcome.

[lebesset]

I don't think that anyone seriously doubts that hamilton is currently the fastest driver in F1 at the moment ; given equal material I can't imagine that anyone would bet their life savings against him

but there is a lot more to race driving than that , ultimately it's about being at the top of the list when the season ends

but button is the more sensitive driver , and when balls out isn't the best method he looks to be the better driver ; notice the last race , he decided for himself to stay out whereas ross brawn called it for rosberg , and the renault pit for their drivers ; on the previous occasion he judged when dries would be quicker sooner than anyone else , they then followed ; if you saw the shots of his inters when they were taken off they were no worse than anyone else's , actually they were a bit too good and not down to the point of being good on a dry surface ; it won't work out for him all the time , sometimes virtue has to be it's own reward

people seem to forget that just over 3 years ago hamilton had never driven a F1 car , he is still a novice , and like any novice he has still to learn

I think button coming to the team will turn hamilton into an all time great , he can learn a lot from him , and will ....despite what some people seem to think , and with apologies for using an english saying , he is bright as a button !but rattled by his team mate ? he was born without that gene

[Paul Oz]

So something is up with Hamilton, and I think his name is Button.

You wish. Kudos to Jenson for those edgy calls rightfully earning him 2 wins, but the most whe has achieved so far in the dry is 8th place. He has a lot of way to go to prove himself against Lewis, which he can't - because simply Lewis is faster and more skilled than him. And in the dry races (of which the majority of a season consists of) favors speed and skill rather than strategic calls.

I'm not a fanboy of either (really any driver .. I like them all for different reasons), but I will point out that Button also out qualified Hamilton on Saturday in perfect conditions. So I think this discussion has pretty much evolved into fan boy ying yang.

I was trying to have a serious discussion about the senseless risks (IMO) that Hamilton has been displaying this year, that's all.

And probably more overtakes than the rest of the field put together..... without causing an accident, or actually getting a penalty. Perfect judgement IMO!

[Paul Oz]

I don't think that anyone seriously doubts that hamilton is currently the fastest driver in F1 at the moment ; given equal material I can't imagine that anyone would bet their life savings against him

but there is a lot more to race driving than that , ultimately it's about being at the top of the list when the season ends

but button is the more sensitive driver , and when balls out isn't the best method he looks to be the better driver ; notice the last race , he decided for himself to stay out whereas ross brawn called it for rosberg , and the renault pit for their drivers ; on the previous occasion he judged when dries would be quicker sooner than anyone else , they then followed ; if you saw the shots of his inters when they were taken off they were no worse than anyone else's , actually they were a bit too good and not down to the point of being good on a dry surface ; it won't work out for him all the time , sometimes virtue has to be it's own reward

people seem to forget that just over 3 years ago hamilton had never driven a F1 car , he is still a novice , and like any novice he has still to learn

I think button coming to the team will turn hamilton into an all time great , he can learn a lot from him , and will ....despite what some people seem to think , and with apologies for using an english saying , he is bright as a button !but rattled by his team mate ? he was born without that gene

Agree whole heartedly!

[PNSD]

Look at Alonso, with 4 stops and a drive through he was what, 11 seconds or so behind Button at the end? Even with Buttons off a few laps from the end he would have been about 15-16 seconds behind. That's a champions drive, not driving through the gravel to the pits like Lewis did.

What are you joking???!!

Have you somehow forgot the saftey car we had 20 or so laps from finish???

Champions drive, bah! If I were him id thank Bernd Maylander!