F1s Greatest Drives

[raymondu999]

Suppose webber had started from 4th on the grid, and finished 8 seconds ahead of Hamilton, would you then say a win by 8 seconds in a massively superior car was one of "F1's greatest drives"?

No, but sadly racing doesn't work that way. It's more than just driving 58 laps as fast as possible. It's also about how you overtake/defend and manage the race.
However, 3rd is relatively "ordinary" for a Red Bull result; that car should be a regular winner and an every-race-podium contender; except perhaps Monza. Also, the fact that Webber started 18th in the first place I'd think is more cause for concern... lol. Funny that his worst qualy performance since 2 or 3 years back yielded his best result of the year

[Tamburello]

Again this best car business? He was catching Vettel at a second a lap at one stage and he sure as hell ain't a second a lap or more faster on just sheer will power so he obviously had a better car than Vettel.

[beelsebob]

Again this best car business? He was catching Vettel at a second a lap at one stage and he sure as hell ain't a second a lap or more faster on just sheer will power so he obviously had a better car than Vettel.

You mean the stage at which Vettel had worn hard tyres and Webber had brand new soft tyres? Soft tyres that are acknowledged to be a second a lap faster than hard ones?

[Tamburello]

The comparison was between Vettel and Hamilton. Leave Webber out of it this time. But yes, it's true about the tyres, so what's your point?

[beelsebob]

The comparison was between Vettel and Hamilton. Leave Webber out of it this time. But yes, it's true about the tyres, so what's your point?

Ah, I misinterpreted. In that case... You mean the point at which Hamilton had brand new hard tyres and Vettel had hard tyres that had fallen off the cliff?

[Just_a_fan]

Shouldn't this Webber/Vettel ying-yang rubbish be in the China race thread? It';s sure as hell polluting this thread...

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Shouldn't this Webber/Vettel ying-yang rubbish be in the China race thread? It';s sure as hell polluting this thread...

+1

[Tamburello]

Exactly. A car is the sum of all its parts. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Praising Hamilton for winning without having the best car and not recognising the only reason he won therefore was because somebody in the best car cocked up their strategy.

My feeling is that Hamilton certainly drove brilliantly and fast for large part of the race. He was definitely faster than Button and Rosberg overall. Not sure he was faster than Webber and we'll never know if he would have been faster than Vettel and Massa on three stoppers.

[beelsebob]

Exactly. A car is the sum of all its parts. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Praising Hamilton for winning without having the best car and not recognising the only reason he won therefore was because somebody in the best car cocked up their strategy.

My feeling is that Hamilton certainly drove brilliantly and fast for large part of the race. He was definitely faster than Button and Rosberg overall. Not sure he was faster than Webber and we'll never know if he would have been faster than Vettel and Massa on three stoppers.

Moved my response to the china thread as we've both agreed that neither driver's was one of the greatest ever.

[ringo]

Ok it wasn't one of F1 greatest drives but it was better than Hamilton's race

No.

Not in terms of overtakes. Hamilton's overtakes and race craft were of a much higher quality.

Webber was very rough on the edges in the earlier parts. However watching the redbull swoop around on the outside with maximum grip was surreal.
The car had to be on the podium, i saw it coming way before the half of the race.

Webber was good, but with little or no resitance except for shumacher i wouldn't say his race compared to hamilton dueling with rosberg and massa and overtaking his teammate.
not to mention this overtake by itself.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4nrpGYYnbA[/youtube]

Too much quality in Hamilton's race to say it wasn't the better drive. And it will go down as a classic, both for him and webber, regardless of what you think.

[Tamburello]

The same provisos that you lay on Webber's overtakes and car can apply to Hamilton who clearly was much faster than Massa, Rosberg and Vettel when he passed them and his teammate hardly defended the inside line like his life depended on it.

The pass on Vettel was inevitable, he had done well to resist for that long. And let's not forget that Hamilton was himself overtaken by both Vettel and Massa in the first stint.

[ringo]

overtaken because he should have pitted.
The mclaren car advantage is nothing like the redbulls.

Neither did button let hamilton by.

[beelsebob]

To add something less noisy to this thread – Hill, Hundary, 97.

[Sebp]

I seriously hope this thread doesn't get locked!!

On topic: Senna, Estoril, 1985
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEG9x-HDq6E[/youtube]

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

overtaken because he should have pitted.
The mclaren car advantage is nothing like the redbulls.

Neither did button let hamilton by.

The car advantage is nullified by Red Bulls 2 stop strategy.it blunted their car advantge as you could tell by Vettel unable to make an impression on Rosberg!
Mods apologies...can this be shifted to the china GP thread??