Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[f1316]

I was imagining actual Mercedes/Ferrari engineers being used as consultants to tell them where they're going wrong and suggest ways to improve. Wouldn't be a quick fix but might stop them going down blind alleys so bring them to relative competitiveness sooner.

I do think the concept is troubling though; manufacturers are in the sport for a few reasons, but as I see it largely the following two:

- As an R&D exercise
- As a PR exercise to show people how good their tech is

If the R&D is reduced to being told how to fix their problems by other manufacturers, it's kinda cheating (they haven't researched or developed their own understanding first hand) and that, then, has a knock on effect to the PR - they couldn't fix their problems on their own, so you'd be better off buying a Mercedes or a Ferrari (or a SMaRT or a FIAT, depending on budget).

So maybe I'm looking at it all wrong. Maybe just allow them better fuel flow for a bit is the way to go? Or as nzjrs said, fewer restrictions, more engines etc/ (or a combo of all of these). I guess it's a bit like MotoGP where you can use softer tyres, or even more so when certain F1 teams were allowed Friday test sessions (when was that? 2006/7?).

[etusch]

I was imagining actual Mercedes/Ferrari engineers being used as consultants to tell them where they're going wrong and suggest ways to improve. Wouldn't be a quick fix but might stop them going down blind alleys so bring them to relative competitiveness sooner.

I think they can give knowledge about tji but they cant say what is wrong on Honda engine without understanding its architecture and this ( understanding Honda engine) could be bigger gain for them then being for Honda.
İn the other hand Honda working on an update and changing that work will cause later update time

[Dimi]

Mercedes helps Honda... this is so embarrassing

[etusch]

Mercedes helps Honda... this is so embarrassing

For sure
Honda can get help from everywhere but Renault merc and ferrari.

[loner]

Mercedes helps Honda... this is so embarrassing

get a grip dude Mercedes didn't accept to give PU to RBR coz they fear them.
Honda is here to learn her engineers Mclaren can't be patience despite all Honda's money
hopefully Honda will reach an agreement with Mclaren to switch to Mercedes and Williams as soon as possible.

[bauc]

I remember the day (V8s) when Renult was given approval to modify its engine to catch up to Merc & Ferrari Engines, so this is a De Ja Vu really

[Craigy]

Who's building the Honda engine?
Found this: "More teams is better, more teams running is better definitely, [but] there's always a price to pay for that which is obviously deviating our resources to maybe build more engines," Boullier said."
Bouillier seems to refer to our (McLaren)resources building more engines.
McLaren have long been in building engines without ever building themselves:
1) 1970's till now McLaren Nicolson to have their own DFV rebuild (improvement) services. Last high profile project was to rebuild a Matra V12 for historic racing so very far from F1.
2) Current V8 turbo for their road car. Origin this was a Nissan commissioned engine done by TRW. Rights and plans bought by McLaren at the TRW liquidation sale. Handed over to Ricardo to develop and produce.
Can anyone shed light of what is McLaren's involvement in the manufacture and development of the Honda engine?

Honda are building the Honda F1 engines. They are doing it at Sakura.

Nicholson McLaren have nothing to do with McLaren Group.

The Nissan engine was developed into an unrecogniseable state to become the M838T.

[godlameroso]

You guys are real desperate for news, the motorsport.com article isn't even saying anything new. Furthermore I don't think much will come of it, they already have an update scheduled for Azerbaijan or Austria. No new knowledge will help them push that update any sooner.

Aside from the MGU-H issues, none of their race engines have exploded, so engine reliability is exaggerated. We know Honda will likely end up taking penalties, and at this rate so will Renault. Its frustrating throwing away the first quarter of the season, now we just have to see how they get on with it.

There's 3 more years of this engine formula, and I'm guessing the panic is over keeping Alonso, as that would be their best chance at winning if they had a competitive package. Honda will get it right they always do in the end. I mean seriously they have a freaking jet, something no other manufacturer does.

I'm positive still, Bahrain must have been rock bottom, from there they can only go up.

[mclaren111]

I would support a call for them to get extra testing days for PU only.

Mclaren can specify an earo spec and not be allowed to make / test any changes / new parts.

[wuzak]

I'm positive still, Bahrain must have been rock bottom, from there they can only go up.

Russia may be even more rock bottom, as it is very fuel hungry circuit.

Azerbaijan will be worse if the engine insn't sorted at least a little bit better.

If the Strategy Group do help Honda I think they also need to help Sauber into a 2017 Ferrari PU. It would be a little unfair if Sauber missed out on 9th place in the WCC and millions of dollars if Honda are given a hand up.

[godlameroso]

I would support a call for them to get extra testing days for PU only.

Mclaren can specify an earo spec and not be allowed to make / test any changes / new parts.

Or just let them fit the power unit in a mule car, and let them test around Suzuka or Motegi.

[Craigy]

Or just let them fit the power unit in a mule car, and let them test around Suzuka or Motegi.

There isn't a specific rule against doing that, as far as I know.

[etusch]

I'm positive still, Bahrain must have been rock bottom, from there they can only go up.

Russia may be even more rock bottom, as it is very fuel hungry circuit.

Azerbaijan will be worse if the engine insn't sorted at least a little bit better.

If the Strategy Group do help Honda I think they also need to help Sauber into a 2017 Ferrari PU. It would be a little unfair if Sauber missed out on 9th place in the WCC and millions of dollars if Honda are given a hand up.

They did 0.2 better laptime on soft than qual lap time on supersoft. I think and I hope they can't be worse ( of course there is always worse situations)

[GoranF1]

I'm positive still, Bahrain must have been rock bottom, from there they can only go up.

Russia may be even more rock bottom, as it is very fuel hungry circuit.

Azerbaijan will be worse if the engine insn't sorted at least a little bit better.

If the Strategy Group do help Honda I think they also need to help Sauber into a 2017 Ferrari PU. It would be a little unfair if Sauber missed out on 9th place in the WCC and millions of dollars if Honda are given a hand up.

Mclaren Honda have made significat gains during Bahrain test in terms of PU mapping and overall PU understanding.
Russia will not be miracle, but it will be better slightly.

[PlatinumZealot]

Here's a nice little tidbit, the current combustion concept was the version designed by the now departed Gillies Simon.

Nope. That is not true. Based on the information I read Gilles Simon had nothing to do with designing anything. He was an advisor .