Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[harjan]

That reports seems quite far off the mark to be honest.

1. Honda was surprised by the gains others (incl Mercedes) had made- 20 bhp is nothing stellar. So I reckon Mercedes has found more.

2. If I understand it correctly they would be 80 bhp down now. Well.. You don't loose 2.5 secs on Sochi straights from a 80 bhp deficit. More like 140-150. Furthermore McLaren and the drivers wouldn't be so extremely unhappy and vocal about it if it were 'only' 80 bhp.

But let's hope they can find the potential from the complex design somewhere down the year and start competing for podiums next year.

[ollandos]

That reports seems quite far off the mark to be honest.

1. Honda was surprised by the gains others (incl Mercedes) had made- 20 bhp is nothing stellar. So I reckon Mercedes has found more.

2. If I understand it correctly they would be 80 bhp down now. Well.. You don't loose 2.5 secs on Sochi straights from a 80 bhp deficit. More like 140-150. Furthermore McLaren and the drivers wouldn't be so extremely unhappy and vocal about it if it were 'only' 80 bhp.

But let's hope they can find the potential from the complex design somewhere down the year and start competing for podiums next year.

80hp its was last year ...now its arroynd the double ..

[Sasha]

Do remember that the ICE is running detuned now to try and survive a race(80-100hp?).The ICE needs a new design CC(heads and pistons)

Also the vibrations are hurting.(shift late and not the best power mapping....50hp?)

[JuanjoTS]

That reports seems quite far off the mark to be honest.

1. Honda was surprised by the gains others (incl Mercedes) had made- 20 bhp is nothing stellar. So I reckon Mercedes has found more.

2. If I understand it correctly they would be 80 bhp down now. Well.. You don't loose 2.5 secs on Sochi straights from a 80 bhp deficit. More like 140-150. Furthermore McLaren and the drivers wouldn't be so extremely unhappy and vocal about it if it were 'only' 80 bhp.

But let's hope they can find the potential from the complex design somewhere down the year and start competing for podiums next year.

80 cv of power explain the difference, if they had 160cv difference would simply never meet the 107% rule, 70 / 80cv is very feasible and is not to be happy, is to cry, it is a brutal difference, but 140 / 150cv Deficit power is simply impossible.

In the thread of McHonda F1 team explained why I think that the circuit of Sochi is possibly the circuit where pure power is more important than Monza and perhaps the pure power circuit of the entire championship, although not achieve record speeds . In a circuit of these characteristics, the importance of power makes the difference seem twice as much.

[Singabule]

Hmmm, Alo top speed no more than 10kph lower than lance Williams with lowest drag, wonder where the 3 sec Come from

[etusch]

That reports seems quite far off the mark to be honest.

1. Honda was surprised by the gains others (incl Mercedes) had made- 20 bhp is nothing stellar. So I reckon Mercedes has found more.

2. If I understand it correctly they would be 80 bhp down now. Well.. You don't loose 2.5 secs on Sochi straights from a 80 bhp deficit. More like 140-150. Furthermore McLaren and the drivers wouldn't be so extremely unhappy and vocal about it if it were 'only' 80 bhp.

But let's hope they can find the potential from the complex design somewhere down the year and start competing for podiums next year.

The drag affect coming from new aero rule is so so big that cars slower at straight in spite of big power gains on engine ? For example merso found 70 hp and still slower at staights, right ?

[proteus]

I must say i am very interested at what happens in Spain. What i presume is, it will be more or less the same.

[Joseki]

Hmmm, Alo top speed no more than 10kph lower than lance Williams with lowest drag, wonder where the 3 sec Come from

They are 1.2 seconds slower than Mercedes in sector 1. The power deficit is incredibly high.

McLaren-Peugeot = McLaren Honda = Pathetic.

McLaren Peugeot finished 4th in the WCC.

[Chene_Mostert]

Hmmm, Alo top speed no more than 10kph lower than lance Williams with lowest drag, wonder where the 3 sec Come from

They are 1.2 seconds slower than Mercedes in sector 1. The power deficit is incredibly high.

McLaren-Peugeot = McLaren Honda = Pathetic.

McLaren Peugeot finished 4th in the WCC.

Yes, you are absolutely right, just shows you back then how high McLaren set their standards under Mr. Dennis. Now they seem to just accept their fate as a tail ender team.

[DarkAlman]

160 HP deficit sounds like the MGU-K isn't working for a chunk of the lap.

I wonder if the vibration issue is a wobble in the turbine drive shaft. If the MGU-H can't harvest at 100% then they lose a lot the MGU-K deployment at top speed and that's worth what around 150-160hp?

Also they might be having to limit the boost pressure to prevent the shaft wobble. So that costs power out of the ICE as well.

Lower HP means the aero just drags the car, which means higher fuel consumption so more fuel saving and more weight because you have to fill the tank.

But that's all speculation.

[GoranF1]

Case closed....


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... im-899851/

[vinuneuro]

Alonso says Honda is losing 2.5-3s on the straights. Is this reasonably accurate?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alon ... 99606/?s=1

[ESPImperium]

Clearly the MGU-K isn't of F1 spec, the shaft wobble is causing the resonance.

The test spec was a one off, a McLaren MGU-K that was attached to the rest of the power unit worked and was workable. Also the fact that the McLaren programmers have had a gander at the software side of things to sort out some of the ins and outs of things on that side from Honda.

Its clear that they both are making progress and will get to the bottom of things together. If McLaren can supply the MGU-K and a reworked and more adaptive software, and Honda can supply the rest of the power unit and make it as good as the Renault, they will be on for a good second half of the season. If the Honda and McLaren guys get a second from the engine in power that gives the chassis enough load to get the 2.5 seconds it needs to be competitive, I'm sure that theres a driver that can drag another about six tenths out of it to bring it right into the mix at the sharp end.

I am sure that they are getting there, I am still of the opinion that we need to keep a watch on Honda, but until they finally get a handle on the reliability issues and then get enough performance to wake the rest of the paddock up that we all need to politely look the other way on Honda and McLaren. They will get there, until they do, I'm afraid Honda and McLaren will have racked up enough penalties to beat their records from 2015.

[Jerrycobra]

Seeing that even Red Bulls are almost 2 seconds adrift makes me feel a little better, but doesn't mask the fact that Mchonda needs to find 3.6 seconds. I wonder how much of the deficit is due to having a lack of ERS deployment, since this is where much of the PU headaches are coming from.

[ESPImperium]

Remember, lack of deployment depletes the ES, and with the ES needing charges, then with the time it takes to charge the ES to a useable state, all that adds on to the pressure on the MGU-H and TC as well. It is all cyclic, every bit they lack it makes them lack else where as well.

With all this lack of ERS, the tyres are not getting stressed due to lack of downforce from lack of power. Again cyclic as a package.

No matter what folk say, i feel that you cannot accurately assess the chassis side of the package until Honda come up with a power unit on par with Renault at least, if not in between Renault and the Ferrari/Mercedes class leading power units. However to contradict myself, i do think that the chassis is as good as the Red Bull as of present, but i cannot accurately assess this without a poor power unit in the rear of the car.

The power unit is a catch 22, and when the chassis and power unit are bolted together its a catch 22 again. You can't make a dog do tricks until the puppy training has been done.