2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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Edax
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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Hoffman900 wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 23:35
What Bottas did was dirty, but not illegal. They're both at fault, but more George for going full send.

1) Toto has every right to be pissed. It cost points, caused millions of dollars in damages, Mercedes takes a cap hit, and apparently may effect what upgrades they can do - which has implications considering how close this season might be. If I made a decision to cost my boss millions of dollars and effected the company's ability to be competitive in the marketplace, he would be pissed at me, regardless if I wasn't completely at fault. "It takes two to tango" - Toto . In most workplaces outside of racing, George would be fired for that.

2) George made the argument that Valteri should be up front fighting. He's right, but George picked the wrong time to make that argument. It also gives credence to George seeing red in trying to prove a point in passing Valteri and maybe sending it more than he would otherwise. Again, if I tried to play my boss against his other employees in the press, you bet he's going to be pissed, and might backfire big time. F1 is as much politics as it is racing. You better figure that game out too if you want some staying power.

3) The DRS is part of the problem creating closing speeds that you only see in multi class racing. Without it, you would never see a car have that much more speed than a trailing car. NASCAR does on occasion, but only in multi-car bump drafts. It also causes huge wrecks.

4) Valteri's move was late and forced George into a tight spot. With the DRS open, George was already low on downforce. Combined with the pit out paint, mixed surfaces, and probably George all in on the engine mapping, created a situation ripe for this.It was dirty, it's an old trick, but he left just enough room to make it not his fault with the stewards.

5) George also needs to realize there are no guarantees in racing. He might be a Mercedes F1 driver in the waiting, but he can easily mess that up for himself. Until he has a contract to be in that car, Toto will always have leverage on him. Toto has leverage too in that other drivers certainly want that seat. He has the pick of the litter if he plays his cards right. George has more to lose than Toto, and Toto is much better at playing the political game as well.
I think that is a good summary. What for me stands out is point 3. DRS was set up such that the closing speed was huge. If Russel would have stayed on track he would have cleared Bottas well before the corner. I guess for a driver it is hard to abandon a run like that.

But it also means that things can go wrong in a hurry. The overtake of Hamilton on Ricciardo could easily have gone the same way if Ricciardo had chosen to set up a similar defense. I guess that is the difference between what you are allowed to do and what is smart to do.

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Unc1eM0nty
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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JordanMugen wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 17:30
dans79 wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 17:28
ispano6 wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 17:26


Nah if the tables were turned the Ham fans would be saying the same thing. It doesn't change the fact HAM made mistakes and got resoundly beat by Verstappen today.
Yet he still sits in second in the championship!
Yep. But long championship ahead. Verstappen, Red Bull and Honda still have a great chance to win the WDC. :wink:
Red Bull need to make hay while the sun shines though, they have the faster package yet are behind in both championships.

That was the mistake Ferrari made a few seasons ago, when your fastest you have to make it count, you can bet that Mercedes will if / when the tables turn.

zibby43
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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jjn9128 wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 21:30
El Scorchio wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 21:03
I feel really sorry for Vettel these days. If he's not having bad luck, then he's having no luck at all.
Hamilton on the other hand is the luckiest driver to ever live. Every time he makes a mistake there's a safety car or red flag to help him climb back through the slower cars.
I think that's recency bias in effect. :D Hamilton lost the 2016 championship in large part due to reliability problems. But for the big end bearing failure in Malaysia when he was leading the race, he would've won the title just from being spared that gremlin alone.

Germany 2019 was pretty unlucky for him as well. I can think of countless other examples.

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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Can't really understand why they did a rolling restart!

It was the perfect time for a standing restart and it would have been even better for the Grand Prix! Any suggestions or info on why the chose the rolling restart??
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

Hoffman900
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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Kimi’s video I think illustrates my point the best.

Hoffman900
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 00:49
Can't really understand why they did a rolling restart!

It was the perfect time for a standing restart and it would have been even better for the Grand Prix! Any suggestions or info on why the chose the rolling restart??
Because there was only one dry line, the rest wet. Whoever started on that would have a MASSIVE advantage.

It was the fairest decision.

cooken
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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jjn9128 wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 21:30
El Scorchio wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 21:03
I feel really sorry for Vettel these days. If he's not having bad luck, then he's having no luck at all.
Hamilton on the other hand is the luckiest driver to ever live. Every time he makes a mistake there's a safety car or red flag to help him climb back through the slower cars.
Is this sarcasm? Otherwise an uncharacteristic moronic comment. He's made plenty of costly mistakes that have gone unmitigated, just not recently (because he hasn't made many mistakes overall recently).

Monza last year?

zeph
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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I can only agree that Russell did himself no favors today. The replays show the mistake was his. His after-race comments are pretty much an own goal.

cooken
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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This race thread is a hot mess of whining. Complaining about unlapping? For real?! It happens basically every damn race yet today lots of folks are feigning shock and disgust....fascinating.

I shudder to think of the dialogue if it was Lewis pushing Max wide onto the yellow kerbs off the start.

Hoffman900
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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cooken wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 01:03
This race thread is a hot mess of whining. Complaining about unlapping? For real?! It happens basically every damn race yet today lots of folks are feigning shock and disgust....fascinating.

I shudder to think of the dialogue if it was Lewis pushing Max wide onto the yellow kerbs off the start.
I would hope a site like this would attract a higher thinking crowd. It use to, as I’ve lurked here for a while, but seems to have regressed.

The rules are the rules. Rules can and sometimes should be changed, but a race thread isn’t the place for that.

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RZS10
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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Does anyone have access to the full footage?
I'd love to have a high res screencap of the start from the heli cam with cars which just about left their starting boxes entirely - because i'm not sure whether my eyes deceived me or if Max had a much dryer patch of tarmac under his car with Lewis' being rather half dry half wet, it could also have been tyre marks - couldn't tell from the low quality footage i had during the race

The normal camera doesn't show it well and the heli-cam isn't in the video they uploaded to youtube.

Hoffman900
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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RZS10 wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 01:12
Does anyone have access to the full footage?
I'd love to have a high res screencap of the start from the heli cam with cars which just about left their starting boxes entirely - because i'm not sure whether my eyes deceived me or if Max had a much dryer patch of tarmac under his car with Lewis' being rather half dry half wet.

The normal camera doesn't show it well and the heli-cam isn't in the video they uploaded to youtube.
Does anyone know if they they jet dry the grid, or at least attempt to, before cars take to the grid?

MKlaus
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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dans79 wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 00:13
Hoffman900 wrote:
18 Apr 2021, 23:35
5) George also needs to realize there are no guarantees in racing. He might be a Mercedes F1 driver in the waiting, but he can easily mess that up for himself. Until he has a contract to be in that car, Toto will always have leverage on him. Toto has leverage too in that other drivers certainly want that seat. He has the pick of the litter if he plays his cards right. George has more to lose than Toto, and Toto is much better at playing the political game as well.
Yep, I half heartedly mentioned earlier that he could lose his future seat to lando. After doing some digging it's already been rumored that lando could replace Lewis, and that part of the engine deal that got McLaren Mercedes engines again, was that lando would be managed by Mercedes going forward.
i would love to see george go to red bull next year than mercedes. it would certainly put the wcc in red bull's basket for sure. an experienced max and a super talented george would be too good a combination. i am sure marko is dialing george's number. george need not have to wait for eternity.
in this race, bottas was really rubbish, mugged by lance and was up for grab for a williams. it's not a racing driver if he does not attempt an overtake if there is one. its absolute no brainer. just because the guy in front is a mercedes doesn’t warrant george to back off. if toto thinks that's a problem, he should be happy to let george go.

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RZS10
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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Hoffman900 wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 01:14
Does anyone know if they they jet dry the grid, or at least attempt to, before cars take to the grid?
Afaik they aren't allowed to, iirc before some race last year Red Bull was using their engine/brake cooling blowers to dry their grid slot and were investigated but they couldn't prove intent or they weren't actually doing it despite it looking like they did ...
Last edited by RZS10 on 19 Apr 2021, 01:22, edited 1 time in total.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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Hoffman900 wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 01:05
cooken wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 01:03
This race thread is a hot mess of whining. Complaining about unlapping? For real?! It happens basically every damn race yet today lots of folks are feigning shock and disgust....fascinating.

I shudder to think of the dialogue if it was Lewis pushing Max wide onto the yellow kerbs off the start.
I would hope a site like this would attract a higher thinking crowd. It use to, as I’ve lurked here for a while, but seems to have regressed.

The rules are the rules. Rules can and sometimes should be changed, but a race thread isn’t the place for that.
It’s quite clear most of the moaning isn’t actually about the rules at all. It’s about a certain someone getting lucky because of how things unfolded during the race.

The rules seem to have been just fine when things like this have happened in the past.