2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

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alogoc
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Whit the EBD to help braking stability gone does RB and other Renault powered cars stand a chance in Monza?
Last edited by alogoc on 04 Sep 2012, 15:15, edited 1 time in total.
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raymondu999
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Personally, I think we have too little data to really conclude anything in that direction
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turbof1
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Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

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FrukostScones wrote:I expect a McLaren domination. Kimi and Alonso will fight with Vettel for the last place on the podium. Jerome D'ambrosio will crash in the first lap. Yawn. Can't wait for Singapore.
weather report says 29 C and sunny with clouds on all three days.
That is more Lotus weather isn't it? The E20 didn't like the cold temperatures of Spa, but 29 degrees is what the car hungers for. It will also be interesting to see how well the cars perform with everybody having the time to find the optimam setup.

I think it'll still be a mclaren victory though.
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pob
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Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

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A d'Ambrosio win would be amazing! :) It's not massively unlikely: he was respectable against Glock in Monza quali last year (0.018 behind), but we didn't get to see how we would have fared in the race because a gearbox problem forced him to retire on the first lap.

zyphro
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Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

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pob wrote:A d'Ambrosio win would be amazing! :) It's not massively unlikely: he was respectable against Glock in Monza quali last year (0.018 behind), but we didn't get to see how we would have fared in the race because a gearbox problem forced him to retire on the first lap.
I think we're asking too much of him to be performing miracles such as that; he's not driven the car competitively thus far, has he? Mind you, the nature of Monza doesn't ask too much of him.

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raymondu999
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Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

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I disagree. A driver without a feel for the fine limits of Monza tippy-toe driving would sacrifice quite some laptime IMO - because even 0.1kph lost through the corner hurts you all the way down the straight.
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turbof1
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Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

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We do know he is a slow starter. He always did that to make sure he doesn't get involved into first round crashes. So we can expect him dropping quite a bit on the first round.

Oh well atleast he'll do better than Grosjean :D. It'll give the oppertunity for Maldonado again to rise and shine.
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zyphro
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Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

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raymondu999 wrote:I disagree. A driver without a feel for the fine limits of Monza tippy-toe driving would sacrifice quite some laptime IMO - because even 0.1kph lost through the corner hurts you all the way down the straight.
I wasn't referring to having a "feel" per se, rather, it's not the most challenging of race tracks on the calender; where he could lose time in an abundance. Also, he'll have time getting up to speed; presuming FP sessions remain dry.

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turbof1
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Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

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zyphro wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:I disagree. A driver without a feel for the fine limits of Monza tippy-toe driving would sacrifice quite some laptime IMO - because even 0.1kph lost through the corner hurts you all the way down the straight.
I wasn't referring to having a "feel" per se, rather, it's not the most challenging of race tracks on the calender; where he could lose time in an abundance. Also, he'll have time getting up to speed; presuming FP sessions remain dry.
I agree. Monza doesn't have any challenging corners or so. 4 hours of practice running should be enough. He could have worse circuits to replace Grosjean. IMO a podium place is well within range for him.

Take this scenario: D'Ambrosio takes a podium at Monza and gets afterwards replaced back by Grosjean, but Grosjean still crashes around in the following rounds. Would they keep Grosjean for next season? If not, will D'Ambrosio take his place or somebody else?
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stefan_
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Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

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turbof1 wrote:
zyphro wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:I disagree. A driver without a feel for the fine limits of Monza tippy-toe driving would sacrifice quite some laptime IMO - because even 0.1kph lost through the corner hurts you all the way down the straight.
I wasn't referring to having a "feel" per se, rather, it's not the most challenging of race tracks on the calender; where he could lose time in an abundance. Also, he'll have time getting up to speed; presuming FP sessions remain dry.
I agree. Monza doesn't have any challenging corners or so. 4 hours of practice running should be enough. He could have worse circuits to replace Grosjean. IMO a podium place is well within range for him.

Take this scenario: D'Ambrosio takes a podium at Monza and gets afterwards replaced back by Grosjean, but Grosjean still crashes around in the following rounds. Would they keep Grosjean for next season? If not, will D'Ambrosio take his place or somebody else?
It would be great for D'Ambrosio, but Grosjean is backed up big time by Total (who pushed to have a french driver in the team for a couple of years now) and I don't think that Boullier has the balls to change Grosjean against Total's will.
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

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turbof1
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Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

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stefan_ wrote:
It would be great for D'Ambrosio, but Grosjean is backed up big time by Total (who pushed to have a french driver in the team for a couple of years now) and I don't think that Boullier has the balls to change Grosjean against Total's will.
Tough position D'Ambrosio is then. They will not let Grosjean go for the sponsorship, but neither will let they Kimi go, who basicilly has been performing very well. The only thing D'Ambrosio can hope for is that he performs very well and an other team (which can score points) will pick him up
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zyphro
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Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

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stefan_ wrote:
It would be great for D'Ambrosio, but Grosjean is backed up big time by Total (who pushed to have a french driver in the team for a couple of years now) and I don't think that Boullier has the balls to change Grosjean against Total's will.
One has to weigh up the pros and cons: if Grosjean continually keeps crashing, he'll lose the team a lot of constructor points - how much sponsorship will cover that, I wonder.

stefan_
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Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

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zyphro wrote:
stefan_ wrote:
It would be great for D'Ambrosio, but Grosjean is backed up big time by Total (who pushed to have a french driver in the team for a couple of years now) and I don't think that Boullier has the balls to change Grosjean against Total's will.
One has to weigh up the pros and cons: if Grosjean continually keeps crashing, he'll lose the team a lot of constructor points - how much sponsorship will cover that, I wonder.
Ask Williams. But we are going way too off-topic.

I just hope that Jerome pulls out a decent weekend. If he learns something by driving around Monza and eventually bags some points for the team I think it will be job done for him.
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

zyphro
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Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

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stefan_ wrote:
Ask Williams. But we are going way too off-topic.
I never asked a question in the first place; not quite sure what this is a reply to.

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turbof1
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Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

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Assuming McLaren are favorites for pole and both McLarens end up with the optimal set up, I think we are in for a real treat. These were the times of last year between the 2:

(1. Sebastian Vettel Germany Red Bull-Renault 1m 22.275s)
2. Lewis Hamilton Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1m 22.725s
3. Jenson Button Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1m 22.777s

Crucially as a driver you can only make very small differences around this track, its really about the car and its setup, so having a smoother or more agressive driving style will not play as much into anyone's hand. So I think it'll be finger licking looking at the McLaren camp.
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