Aldo Costa steps down as Ferrari technical director

[donskar]

Interesting posts in this thread; I appreciate reading them, since I think engineers are the true heroes of F1. I can't help but remember, though, that Ferrari (which from some earlier posts would seem to be a total disaster) built a car good enough for WDC runner-up just last season. Think of the pressure and extraordinary expectations at Ferrari, where #2 out of 12 is failure so serious it leads to dismissal.

[xpensive]

...
I can't help but remember, though, that Ferrari (which from some earlier posts would seem to be a total disaster) built a car good enough for WDC runner-up just last season.
...

What Ferrari needs is a German driver Don...

[marcush.]

with all due respect ,I cannot think of Newey as a technical director.The guy has already the RBR8 in his head and he DOES the design,no doubt about it.He has a excellent group of people doing exactly what is needed and each of the top guys would be an excellent leader at another team but at RB it´s going Neweys ways and his troops are supporting him ,and surely are good enough to come up with detail ideas which find their ways into the car..but he´s the guy who decides and does the concept.
I understand that he arrived at RedBull and expected a group of people and a facility to support his ideas but that was not the case.If it is his or Willis success story that RedBull now has all incredients to produce successful Formula 1 machinery I don´t know .I´d guess Neweay is coming up with new ideas for equipment and possibilities to do things every other week so maybe the biggest challenge is to find a big enough cheque book but Didi Mateschitz has again showed that he has a very clever nose..

[bot6]

Well, I think Costa is paying for somebody else's mistakes. If I was him, I would apply for the Williams job. He's a deserving bloke in a difficult situation, and I think the real culprit for the loss in performance is more to be found on the management side. Domenicalli to be precise. He needs to go. He does not seem to give any strong leadership to the team, and that leads to small-pond despots trying to take over that role, which kills productivity.

Hopefully, he will tell Ferrari to sod off with their "relocation" and go somewhere else, where his expertise and experience will be valued.

[donskar]

Well, I think Costa is paying for somebody else's mistakes. If I was him, I would apply for the Williams job. He's a deserving bloke in a difficult situation, and I think the real culprit for the loss in performance is more to be found on the management side. Domenicalli to be precise. He needs to go. He does not seem to give any strong leadership to the team, and that leads to small-pond despots trying to take over that role, which kills productivity.

Hopefully, he will tell Ferrari to sod off with their "relocation" and go somewhere else, where his expertise and experience will be valued.

Well said. I think Costa is a good, deeply experienced, thoroughly competent F1 engineer, but he (and the other key members of the current team) could neveer measure up to the impossibly high standards of the "Dream Team." Alonso might be close to Schu, but who is in the same league with Brawn, Todt, and Byrne? Marmorini is not the equal of Gilles Simon, and no one replaced (or probably could replace) Paolo Martinelli. Ferrari fan or not, all of us have lived through a perios dominated by possibly the greatest total team in F1 history.

[timbo]

Well, I think Costa is paying for somebody else's mistakes. If I was him, I would apply for the Williams job. He's a deserving bloke in a difficult situation, and I think the real culprit for the loss in performance is more to be found on the management side. Domenicalli to be precise. He needs to go. He does not seem to give any strong leadership to the team, and that leads to small-pond despots trying to take over that role, which kills productivity.

Hopefully, he will tell Ferrari to sod off with their "relocation" and go somewhere else, where his expertise and experience will be valued.

Well said. I think Costa is a good, deeply experienced, thoroughly competent F1 engineer, but he (and the other key members of the current team) could neveer measure up to the impossibly high standards of the "Dream Team." Alonso might be close to Schu, but who is in the same league with Brawn, Todt, and Byrne? Marmorini is not the equal of Gilles Simon, and no one replaced (or probably could replace) Paolo Martinelli. Ferrari fan or not, all of us have lived through a perios dominated by possibly the greatest total team in F1 history.

Well, I think that the "dream team" did to F1 what Senna and Prost did in his days — they raised the bar, and now everyone is much closer to that level.
So, I think if the current Ferrari structure worked in that days they would do well.
I fail to see how someone can judge how Domenicalli fairs as a boss, unless you are working with the team. The public image may be quite different.
And telling that it was obvious that the operation was wrong for a long time is IMO a hindsight knowledge.
Where was WhiteBlue when Ferrari did very well in the tests and everybody said they are equal or second to RBR?
Similarly, when it seemed that Macca created a dog of the car there was a talks that are wrong in their personal management, and they are wrong in this and that and where are the people who was speaking now?
Sure, the team seems on the downbeat of the history. But I would rather trust Alonso, who seems to think the team is in good enough shape to commit for next 5 years, I sincerely doubt he is romantic as Jean Alesi.

[xpensive]

I believe the pressure from both fans and Santander are xtremely high, Santander have spent an obscene amount of money to get Alonso in, and Raikkonen out for that matter. They could and perhaps should have won the title last year, which only fueled said xpectations and when the promise from last year didn't continue the sponsor demanded a change, which the management knee-jerked to.

But it seems reasonable that they had a plan made up before they booted poor Costa out, let's hope it's not Sam Michael, but it seems possible as he conveniently quit Williams just a few months ago. But this would indicate that the decision was made already before Christmas in the aftermath of the lost title?

My money is therefore still on Mike Gascoyne, who would never budge to Ferrari politics.

[Lorenzo_Bandini]

Santander pressure is not true:

Toujours aussi peu diplomatique, Il Grillo Rampante (commentaire anonyme sur le site de Ferrari, sur les rumeurs la concernant). A réagit sur l’affaire Emilio Botin – Stefano Domenicali (voir ici pour souvenir) indiquant que « Malheureusement pour le journaliste en question, qui, entre autres choses, n’était non seulement pas au Circuit de Catalunya, mais sur très peu de pistes, ses affirmations sont non seulement fausses, mais l’histoire est complètement hors du contexte dans lequel elle a été dit. »

Alors que c’est t’il passé véritablement ? Nous pouvons vous le dire :

Nous sommes après la qualification du Grand Prix d’Espagne. Ana, une des coordinatrice média de Santander organise une séance photo avec deux mannequins toutes de rouge avec logo de la banque vêtue. Ron Dennis arrive et plaisante avec la coordinatrice, puis Emilio Botin , PDG de Santander demande ce qu’il se passe en voyant l’ex patron de McLaren et engage une très courte conversation avec ce dernier.

Ron Dennis en profite pour demander à Botin un rendez vous en fin d’après midi à Monaco, avec la coordinatrice média. Mais, Le PDG de Santander lui répond que cela n’est pas possible car il a déjà un rendez-vous avec Alonso et le personnel de Ferrari. A partir de ce moment, Dennis lui répond que McLaren est devant Ferrari au championnat et que Santander et son PDG devraient tenir ses engagements. Tout cela devant quelques personnes.

Humiliation de Botin qui, de colère, est venu se réfugier dans le motor-home Ferrari et a expliqué l’histoire à un Stefano Domenicali, médusé et mal à l’aise.

Effectivement hors contexte et le malaise n’est pas entre Santander et Ferrari et entre Santander et McLaren…
http://www.tomorrownewsf1.com/paddock-s ... cali-21461

-After quali, Ana, a media coordinator of Santander is organizing a photo shoot with two models of all red with the logo of the bank dressed.
-Ron Dennis came, and joke with Ana.
-Santander CEO Emilio Botin came, and talk with Ron Dennis
-Ron Dennis take this opportunity to ask for an appointment with Botin and the Media coordinator
-Botin said to Dennis that he had already an appointment with Alonso and Ferrari personnel.
-Ron Dennis was not happy, he said Ferrari is behind Mclaren in WCC so Botin have to keep his commitments
-Botin was furious came in Ferrari motor home to speak about that with Domenicali, who was uncomfortable.

So it's seems the discomfort is between Santander and Mclaren.

[mstar]

I am not sure how good the technical department is in terms of personnel, but wouldn't it be a good idea to get Peter Pendromou (sp?) Mclaren never really replaced him efficiently and his work at Redbull has been fantastic. He probably won't be a TD i don't think but he will strengthen the aero department.

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

Well, I think Costa is paying for somebody else's mistakes. If I was him, I would apply for the Williams job. He's a deserving bloke in a difficult situation, and I think the real culprit for the loss in performance is more to be found on the management side. Domenicalli to be precise. He needs to go. He does not seem to give any strong leadership to the team, and that leads to small-pond despots trying to take over that role, which kills productivity.

Hopefully, he will tell Ferrari to sod off with their "relocation" and go somewhere else, where his expertise and experience will be valued.

Well said. I think Costa is a good, deeply experienced, thoroughly competent F1 engineer, but he (and the other key members of the current team) could neveer measure up to the impossibly high standards of the "Dream Team." Alonso might be close to Schu, but who is in the same league with Brawn, Todt, and Byrne? Marmorini is not the equal of Gilles Simon, and no one replaced (or probably could replace) Paolo Martinelli. Ferrari fan or not, all of us have lived through a perios dominated by possibly the greatest total team in F1 history.

Well, I think that the "dream team" did to F1 what Senna and Prost did in his days — they raised the bar, and now everyone is much closer to that level.
So, I think if the current Ferrari structure worked in that days they would do well.
I fail to see how someone can judge how Domenicalli fairs as a boss, unless you are working with the team. The public image may be quite different.
And telling that it was obvious that the operation was wrong for a long time is IMO a hindsight knowledge.
Where was WhiteBlue when Ferrari did very well in the tests and everybody said they are equal or second to RBR?
Similarly, when it seemed that Macca created a dog of the car there was a talks that are wrong in their personal management, and they are wrong in this and that and where are the people who was speaking now?
Sure, the team seems on the downbeat of the history. But I would rather trust Alonso, who seems to think the team is in good enough shape to commit for next 5 years, I sincerely doubt he is romantic as Jean Alesi.

We can judge how Domenicali responds to changes in F1, and to deficiencies on the car. There he has failed considerably. They implemented an extra week of testing at the end of the 2009 season to make the tyres work better and look where we are today: the car stinks on hard compounds and has trouble with all in qualifying. He failed. He shut development early in 2009 to work on 2010 challenger and while it was better, it certainly wasnt on the level of Red Bull, and only got on pace once they copied all the stuff Newey bolted on the Red Bull car. This year is the same with regards to the exhaust solution. For a team that was once so trend setting under the dream team, this is unacceptable.

[timbo]

We can judge how Domenicali responds to changes in F1, and to deficiencies on the car. There he has failed considerably. They implemented an extra week of testing at the end of the 2009 season to make the tyres work better and look where we are today: the car stinks on hard compounds and has trouble with all in qualifying. He failed. He shut development early in 2009 to work on 2010 challenger and while it was better, it certainly wasnt on the level of Red Bull, and only got on pace once they copied all the stuff Newey bolted on the Red Bull car. This year is the same with regards to the exhaust solution. For a team that was once so trend setting under the dream team, this is unacceptable.

I fail to see how all of this is Domenicali's fault.
Fact is that in the current age of engine freeze the chassis side is all important. And since Newey has streamlined the operation in RBR it's extremely hard to beat him, not only Ferrari struggles with this.

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

Brawn seemed to have managed quite well in 2009.

The buck has to stop somewhere. The reorganisations within Ferrari are Domenicali's responsibility. The shuffling of race strategy guys too. He did it twice, and failed twice and is hard underway failing three times, if you look at this years race strategies. Unacceptable.

[timbo]

Brawn seemed to have managed quite well in 2009.

With $400 mil to develop a car, a simultaneous operation in three wind tunnels, three or four prototype configs being tested etc etc
Despite all of this and not having a DDD on the car the RBR was a tough challenger.

The buck has to stop somewhere. The reorganisations within Ferrari are Domenicali's responsibility. The shuffling of race strategy guys too. He did it twice, and failed twice and is hard underway failing three times, if you look at this years race strategies. Unacceptable.

Ferrari did quite well last year strategywise. The Abu-Dhabi slump took a lot of attention but it was in part to Ferrari not getting enough performance from the tyres and the track characteristic, had it been the race without a title at stakes it would be already forgotten.
And these days it's impossible to win races solely on strategy — look at how Brawn does at Mercedes.

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

400 mil is around Ferraris annual budget too. And it wasnt 3 or 4, but more than a hundred different front wings they put in windtunnels. How come Ferrari didnt do the same in 2009? ANd you seriously think 2010 was good strategic wise? Id say at Melbourne, Malaysia and oh, Hockenheim they made themselves look like fools. Clumsy. Amateuristic. No, im less than impressed with how Domenicali steers his team, or his reactions to crisis. ANd seems im not alone.

[timbo]

400 mil is around Ferraris annual budget too.

That was sum that went in the car only.

And it wasnt 3 or 4, but more than a hundred different front wings they put in windtunnels.

3 or 4 was different general car layouts. Not details. Like they had a BGP001,002,003 etc all in one year to try the best.

How come Ferrari didnt do the same in 2009?

Because they fought for both titles and developed the car until the final race.

ANd you seriously think 2010 was good strategic wise? Id say at Melbourne, Malaysia and oh, Hockenheim they made themselves look like fools. Clumsy. Amateuristic.

I didn't say perfect. And the result of German GP was really good for their title fight.

No, im less than impressed with how Domenicali steers his team, or his reactions to crisis. ANd seems im not alone.

So, you would change a team leader during the season and basically start from scratch?
Not a wise decision in my book.
Reshuffling a tech department is much easier it this time of the year. New car is still on finalized, and the current car is up and running, with a stream of updates already planned.
Maybe they would replace Domenicali sooner or later, but think of 1996, had they dumped Todt mid-year as was demanded but many people, where would they be?
I think that Montezemolo can make a much more informed decision that me or you. If he thinks Domenicali stays, so be it.