Innovo 2012 F1 Car - Tozza Mazza and JordanGP

[godsire]

I made a small change so ignore this gray stripes.



The quality is quite bad, but when I save pictures in .bmp format, I have to wait a lot during upload.

[godlameroso]

I know it's a diffuser really but I'm talking about having the leading edge profile look similar the front lip of the car. Sure the air is faster near the end-plates, and it's also less stable. It's a compromise really, do you want a more stable aero then you add the slots on the end plate, or you can droop the wing at the ends, the end goal being to have a more uniform laminar flow across the wing. That's why Renault fiddled with a W wing for a bit, they thought the extra surface area near the endplates would help keep airflow attached to the wing a bit longer, to match what they were getting in the central section. I think they just got the shape wrong, so did Williams.

[ringo]

I made a small change so ignore this gray stripes.



The quality is quite bad, but when I save pictures in .bmp format, I have to wait a lot during upload.

now do you notice the difference?

You can make a better analysis with the sharper contrast in colours.
If you look under the wing, you will be able to see where the separation occurs on the back.
To get out the grey, put the view in wire frame.

[Tozza Mazza]

I know it's a diffuser really but I'm talking about having the leading edge profile look similar the front lip of the car. Sure the air is faster near the end-plates, and it's also less stable. It's a compromise really, do you want a more stable aero then you add the slots on the end plate, or you can droop the wing at the ends, the end goal being to have a more uniform laminar flow across the wing. That's why Renault fiddled with a W wing for a bit, they thought the extra surface area near the endplates would help keep airflow attached to the wing a bit longer, to match what they were getting in the central section. I think they just got the shape wrong, so did Williams.

Are you sure this will reduce drag and improve DF? if so ill adapt the wing design and run it on our next test.

We know have slotted endplates similar to the 2009 Mclaren.

[godlameroso]

Depending on the shape it will either increase drag and not downforce, increase downforce and drag(although slots on the endplates can ameliorate this drag somewhat), or do neither. The simpler the shape of the aero the less drag it will produce, as a general rule of thumb. The problem comes in thinking that 90 degree angles are simple, and unfortunately the wing and endplate meet at roughly that angle. (they're anything but simple especially from a mathematics standpoint). Unfortunately the rules forbid the use of a more simple angle, if the rear wing end plates connected to the wing at a 60 degree angle, instead of directly perpendicular to it, you would most likely notice a reduction in drag.

[Tozza Mazza]

Depending on the shape it will either increase drag and not downforce, increase downforce and drag(although slots on the endplates can ameliorate this drag somewhat), or do neither. The simpler the shape of the aero the less drag it will produce, as a general rule of thumb. The problem comes in thinking that 90 degree angles are simple, and unfortunately the wing and endplate meet at roughly that angle. (they're anything but simple especially from a mathematics standpoint). Unfortunately the rules forbid the use of a more simple angle, if the rear wing end plates connected to the wing at a 60 degree angle, instead of directly perpendicular to it, you would most likely notice a reduction in drag.

Interesting, I'll look into a solution for the next iteration of the wing, although that might not be for a while.

All 3 of us involved go back to education this week!

Next up we're going to try and run a base diffuser, just to see how it works.

[Tozza Mazza]

Depending on the shape it will either increase drag and not downforce, increase downforce and drag(although slots on the endplates can ameliorate this drag somewhat), or do neither. The simpler the shape of the aero the less drag it will produce, as a general rule of thumb. The problem comes in thinking that 90 degree angles are simple, and unfortunately the wing and endplate meet at roughly that angle. (they're anything but simple especially from a mathematics standpoint). Unfortunately the rules forbid the use of a more simple angle, if the rear wing end plates connected to the wing at a 60 degree angle, instead of directly perpendicular to it, you would most likely notice a reduction in drag.

Interesting find on your idea, which you may or may not be aware of.

I am incorperating your idea into the next iteration of the wing, although my concept has advanced it, using other rear wing solutions aswell.



Honda ran this wing in 2006 in Canada and Monza, I should get it finished soon and will then submit it for a CFD test.

Our new endplates should also boost rear wing performance.

[Tozza Mazza]

Hello all,

Quick update, we've ran an analysis, using Godlameroso's idea, for the rear wing.

The old rear wings were 'low drag spec ' wings, so a comparison is maybe a little unfair, but here are the figures:

Downforce:1450N
Drag:500N
This is at 75m/s.

This is a 300N downforce increase, with a 170N drag increase.

Therefore, I believe this solution for the wing should be looked at in greater detail, and manipulated further!

Below are some images, more analysis and feedback would be greatly appreciated!!

PRESSURE:



VELOCITY:


FLOW:

[wesley123]

you got a little bit of flow seperation going on it seems?

[Tozza Mazza]

you got a little bit of flow seperation going on it seems?

Definitely looks that way, but the concept shows promise.

Any solutions or ideas?

[wesley123]

Think you should compare it a little bit to a ragular wing first, see the different results. Also a gurney tab or different trailing edge profile of the main wing can show a lot of gain. From what I see it seems the main plane stalls at it's trailing edge and the flow through the slot gap doesnt seem to be optimal. The flap seems to be stalling around half it's chord length.

[ringo]

wing looks like my wing.
Watch it guys.

Anyway may i see a screen capture of the force results, average, lowest, highest.


Would also recommend making a diffuser to get a better performance representation.
This was from 2010, so it doesn't relate to today/s wings but you get the idea.

[Tozza Mazza]

wing looks like my wing.
Watch it guys.

Anyway may i see a screen capture of the force results, average, lowest, highest.


Would also recommend making a diffuser to get a better performance representation.
This was from 2010, so it doesn't relate to today/s wings but you get the idea.

We used ideas from your wing, because, well, they're sensible and in theory work!
But we combined it with Godlameroso's shaping idea too.

That analysis is really good, you got any tips or ideas?

We will add a diffuser, new endplates, and the beam wing, and get results back to you!

[Byronrhys]

I'm curious about the wave in the nose section Ross and Sam were talking about... you guys simulate it yet?

[Tozza Mazza]

I'm curious about the wave in the nose section Ross and Sam were talking about... you guys simulate it yet?

What wave in the nose section?

We have a new nose and Chassis, as we are anticipating a new chassis shape (the one seen in the 2014 regs) to actually come into force in 2012!