Why Monaco and not Nordschleife?

[Sebp]

Let's start collecting money then [-o<
Please transfer to my paypal account...

[timbo]

it is unique event and there's little competition for audience.

It's F1 at Nordschleife! How much more unique do you want it?

It would still be a single race in the long championship.
Remember LeMans is not only a part of endurance series, it is important one-off event on it's one. And it is different format with 24hr non-stop action.

Wouldn't a GP at the Nordschleife bring in the biggest TV audience of all races? As I understand it that's where the money is coming from anyway. Bernie doesn't care for empty grandstands. All he cares for is the GP organisers paying him his fee.

What about providing TV coverage? Don't you think having a crew to picture the event up to current standards would also cost more?

I can't picture empty grandstands at a race like this. So the organisers should be able to pay the fee if they can build enough grandstands.

Really? How many people you think it can gather? Remember the expenses WOULD be higher. And what they would see? 24 cars around for 15 times?

And about the marshalls, they're mostly volunteers. The track is very big, so every marshall individually wouldn't have that much to do. So he/she would essentially enjoy a free GP with hardly any work to do.

Yeah, marshals are volunteers, but the equipment is not for free. And with a track THAT big, you would also need to double (if not triple) medical crew, and another safety-car. And how it would be managed?

The real "issue" is safety. Of course, it would cost a sizeable sum to upgrade the track. Totally worth it imo!

You mean worthy for a fan or for banker who would pay for it? Because it is the latter who decides, unfortunately. So go to the sig link of Pandamasque and read what the upgrade of modern-Nurburgring resulted in.

But I think in the end it's down to the drivers probably still bitching around as they don't want to get humiliated by someone driving an HRT in their Red Bulls or Ferraris. They'll say this is not safe, blablabla... while the "lesser" drivers would scratch their heels.

[Sebp]

Wouldn't a GP at the Nordschleife bring in the biggest TV audience of all races? As I understand it that's where the money is coming from anyway. Bernie doesn't care for empty grandstands. All he cares for is the GP organisers paying him his fee.

What about providing TV coverage? Don't you think having a crew to picture the event up to current standards would also cost more?

Doesn't Bernie provide the TV crews nowadays or does he just provide the director?

I can't picture empty grandstands at a race like this. So the organisers should be able to pay the fee if they can build enough grandstands.

Really? How many people you think it can gather? Remember the expenses WOULD be higher. And what they would see? 24 cars around for 15 times?

Vidscreens? Yeah, I know, there would have to be many...

And about the marshalls, they're mostly volunteers. The track is very big, so every marshall individually wouldn't have that much to do. So he/she would essentially enjoy a free GP with hardly any work to do.

Yeah, marshals are volunteers, but the equipment is not for free. And with a track THAT big, you would also need to double (if not triple) medical crew, and another safety-car. And how it would be managed?

Ask the guys at other big tracks how they cope and do it better. Where there's a will there's a way! I think the germans are quite organised.

The real "issue" is safety. Of course, it would cost a sizeable sum to upgrade the track. Totally worth it imo!

You mean worthy for a fan or for banker who would pay for it? Because it is the latter who decides, unfortunately. So go to the sig link of Pandamasque and read what the upgrade of modern-Nurburgring resulted in.

Get a big enthusiastic sponsor. And don't be so damn realistic

[timbo]

Doesn't Bernie provide the TV crews nowadays or does he just provide the director?

Yeah, he does provide crew. The problem is that to adequately cover such a track he would need two times the crew at least. Do you imagine him doing that?

Ask the guys at other big tracks how they cope and do it better. Where there's a will there's a way! I think the germans are quite organised.

I already said about LeMans, (and it only half of Green Hell) — it is below F1 standards IMO.

Get a big enthusiastic sponsor. And don't be so damn realistic

Both of which are problems at current day and age, unfortunately.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@ Timbo


Mercedes have a fleet of medical cars at FIA disposal. The FIA dont pay for this, as its already funded by Mercedes.

As for the equipment, 4 day lease of lifting trucks will set you back no more than a 1500 euros a piece. Call it an extra 10 trucks and that 15k, a drop in the ocean.
Then you have safety equipment which lets not forget the 'ring can utilise 50% of this from the GP track. The remainder can be had from the rest of the tracks dotted around germany. Costs would be minimal given that its only "loaned" for the weekend.

Then you have the current equipment in place already, not F1 standard but still not shabby, especially if you have driven there before you can tell these guys arent amatuers.

The cost implications here arent very big at all, when you consider the revenues being generated.


The problem is run off areas for the modern F1 car, and how to incorporate this into the classic track. Currently it would be easily deemed too unsafe to race.
The costs involved in making the track safe with mammoth run-off areas would run into the millions. Its this very reason why we will not see F1 at this track unless an abramovic style sugar daddy decides to take on the costs for the "love of the sport".
You also have the problem of the surface of the track. How will F1 cars react to this type of Surface, would the entire track require relaying?
And if it does, would the track lose some of what makes it unique? And I havent even thought of how much the cost of a tarmac relay over 12 miles would be....

[Sebp]

Get a big enthusiastic sponsor. And don't be so damn realistic

Both of which are problems at current day and age, unfortunately.

We may have to settle for a non-championship GP then. I'm open for any kind of open wheel racing here.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Dust off the old Group C cars and give them to the current F1 drivers to play in I say

[timbo]

@JohnsonsEvilTwin

Well, of course I agree that upgrading the track to Grade 1 would be the most money.
But I'm not sure that running costs of managing such event would be as easy financially, not to mention, management-wise as you describe. But, yeah, it probably can be done.

What about sporting implications — safetycar, rain etc?

[timbo]

Dust off the old Group C cars and give them to the current F1 drivers to play in I say

Umm, current LMPs would be more adequate IMO.
There were people cursing Kubica here for his rally excursions, imagine what they'd say about 956s!

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

What about sporting implications — safetycar, rain etc?

No different from Spa, just twice as large.

Umm, current LMPs would be more adequate IMO.
There were people cursing Kubica here for his rally excursions, imagine what they'd say about 956s!

Of course, Im just reminiscing and dreaming!

Heres a video chaps:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdghVfOo ... re=related[/youtube]


Heidfeld seems positively petrified

Edit, he takes the highline around the Carousel...the girl!

[timbo]

What about sporting implications — safetycar, rain etc?

No different from Spa, just twice as large.

More like three times actually, don't you think it makes ALL the difference?

Edit, he takes the highline around the Carousel...the girl!

Actually for most of the times it looks like warm-up lap))

[CHT]

question is can you actually overtake on a narrow track like this? how much would you pay to watch a race where you only see the car for 20 odd laps

[Sebp]

Heidfeld seems positively petrified

Edit, he takes the highline around the Carousel...the girl!

It would be quite a unique challenge for F1 engineers to design a suspension system that worked with F1 cars around here. Iirc they had to at least double the BMWs usual travel when "Quick" Nick did his run.

[FW17]

@ Timbo

The problem is run off areas for the modern F1 car, and how to incorporate this into the classic track. Currently it would be easily deemed too unsafe to race.
The costs involved in making the track safe with mammoth run-off areas would run into the millions. Its this very reason why we will not see F1 at this track unless an abramovic style sugar daddy decides to take on the costs for the "love of the sport".
You also have the problem of the surface of the track. How will F1 cars react to this type of Surface, would the entire track require relaying?
And if it does, would the track lose some of what makes it unique? And I havent even thought of how much the cost of a tarmac relay over 12 miles would be....

I don't know why a bucket load of money has to be spent on circuit upgrade in terms of runoff and tarmac. For spectator safety high fences have to be installed in some areas, but why the rest? The place already has a decent quality tarmac, kerbs, some run-off, armco barriers all around, that should be enough.

If track is bumpy, the car needs to be designed for it. After all the teams have the bucket load to blow and they do it for every other weekend. It is not that this is the only track that is bumpy, Canada a couple of years back had disintegrated tarmac at the hairpin.

The cars have been made tough by the FIA, if more safety is required for a nordschleife like track then the parameters should be made tougher. IRL does all their races at tracks that are either oval or with limited run-off as seen in Road America, and they race in the USA where safety is more paramount than standards set by the FIA and law suits line up quicker than BE's stance.

So safety and track upgrade is not a requirement for a race, just bring it on.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I was poking fun at Nick, no harm no foul.

There was no danger of him hitting all the apexes, and a driver of his calibre would be doing so.
Obviously Theissen had a word with him to make damned sure the car came home in one piece.