HRT F112 Cosworth

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.

Will HRT be in Q2 in 2012?

Yes - at the start of the Season
15
5%
Yes - by Germany
22
7%
No - not in 2012
167
54%
Never!
103
34%
 
Total votes: 307

wesley123
wesley123
204
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:55 pm

Re: HRT F112 Cosworth

Post

hrt wrote:Is always nice to see someone that have any idea about HRT and also F1, thank you "cbbcisace".
Excuse me for my opinion, will fix it now;

HRT will become Constructors champions next year, that is definetely sure by the huge effort they pull, the large amount of people they have contacted, two magnificent drivers and also an secure base, both in resources as in cashflow.
The rest of u is clear that u guys have not any --- idea how HRT is going on or is not, what do we now about Virgin, did they say anything about the team or staff? Did they say anything about the car? Did they say thank you to all the people that is saying that virging is better than HRT but they have finished last two years consecutive?
1. This topic is about HRT, not Virgin/Marussia.
2. How can you know then they are doing well? You know that just as sure as I do that they will fail. The only difference is they did exactly the same last year.
3. Virgin might have finished last 2 years in a row but there is a lot of difference between these 2 efforts;
-Virgin has a secure financial base with sponsors, No one wants to sponsor HRT on the other hand.
-Virgin has a line up consisting of both future as well as experience, HRT has a line up based on money, money and more money.

HRT now has exchanged hands multiple times, changed people multiple times and after 3 years still not have sponsors. The fact that Virgin for example has enough sponsors and McLaren willing to support them technically. Doesnt that say more about how bad things are going on with HRT than how good things are going with Virgin?

Based that they have to recruit a sh!tload of people again in this period gives me absolutely no doubt they will make the first race just in time, and be a farce there again.

Excuse me, but I do not see why anyone even has hope in this team, They barely have any sponsors, their driver line up is laughable once again and they still dont have a secure base, both in team owners as well as in team base and people.
I have not idea how the pp here see the F1, probably with the eyes close because is impossible to cannot see it.
To see what? That in 3 years their effort is just as professional as they were when they debuted?
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

cbbcisace
cbbcisace
0
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:31 pm

Re: HRT F112 Cosworth

Post

Wesley, agreed that HRT have changed ownerships too many times, but I am not sure how secure Marussia finances are, apart from Virgin and Marussia, they don't have major sponsors.

I belive HRT will end up 12th in the championship next year, but I don't think it will be farce re testing etc this year.

Guess we will have to wait and see.

PS. Lets just talk about the car in here now please!

hrt
hrt
0
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:09 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: HRT F112 Cosworth

Post

This topic is about HRT, not Virgin/Marussia.
So you should get it.
-Virgin has a secure financial base with sponsors, No one wants to sponsor HRT on the other hand.
-Virgin has a line up consisting of both future as well as experience, HRT has a line up based on money, money and more money.
What?? Do I need to show u the car that was in brazil?? Then u count the sponsors,ok?
HRT now has exchanged hands multiple times, changed people multiple times and after 3 years still not have sponsors. The fact that Virgin for example has enough sponsors and McLaren willing to support them technically. Doesnt that say more about how bad things are going on with HRT than how good things are going with Virgin?
after 3 years and still not have sponsors, you finally watch HRT with the eyes close.
Excuse me, but I do not see why anyone even has hope in this team, They barely have any sponsors, their driver line up is laughable once again and they still dont have a secure base, both in team owners as well as in team base and people.
Don't worry you are excuse the driver line up is laughable?? Funny boy, so poor the last team, they are faster but their driver are not faster enough to be in front.
And the other things I won't waste me time for you.
That in 3 years their effort is just as professional as they were when they debuted?
Maybe you don't know it or you won't know it, but this is HRT not hispania or Campos Meta, is a new team that is starting from 0.

wesley123
wesley123
204
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:55 pm

Re: HRT F112 Cosworth

Post

hrt wrote:
-Virgin has a secure financial base with sponsors, No one wants to sponsor HRT on the other hand.
-Virgin has a line up consisting of both future as well as experience, HRT has a line up based on money, money and more money.
What?? Do I need to show u the car that was in brazil?? Then u count the sponsors,ok?
Sure;
Image

Where are the sponsors?
HRT now has exchanged hands multiple times, changed people multiple times and after 3 years still not have sponsors. The fact that Virgin for example has enough sponsors and McLaren willing to support them technically. Doesnt that say more about how bad things are going on with HRT than how good things are going with Virgin?
after 3 years and still not have sponsors, you finally watch HRT with the eyes close.
Uhh okay, where is their homebase located where they will styay for the next 30 years or so?
Also, where are all the sponsors then? They only have Base batteries, with a logo on the car that is barely visible for the eye.

And also I mostly dont watch HRT, since they arent bother watching, I only see them when they get lapped.
Excuse me, but I do not see why anyone even has hope in this team, They barely have any sponsors, their driver line up is laughable once again and they still dont have a secure base, both in team owners as well as in team base and people.
Don't worry you are excuse the driver line up is laughable?? Funny boy, so poor the last team, they are faster but their driver are not faster enough to be in front.
And the other things I won't waste me time for you.[/quote]

1. I dont udnerstand you

2. If you don't want to waste time on me, why you wrote that post?

Ad the driver line up isn't my excuse why they are laughable, it is a simple fact. I mean, Karthikeyan?! De La Rosa?! Seriously they can rather drive the car themselves.
I can name a few drivers who would be a better choice;
-V. Liuzzi
-J. d'Ambrosio
-Lucas di Grassi
-Bruno Senna
-V. Petrov
-R. Barrichello
-A. Sutil
-S. Buemi
-J. Alguersuari
-S. Speed
-S. Bourdais
-R. Doornbos
-G. van de Garde
-Y. Buurman
-K. Chandhok
-And from here on I got bored.

There are at least 50 drivers that are better for the job or have more money available than Karthikeyan and De LA Rosa. Hence why I name HRT unprofessional
That in 3 years their effort is just as professional as they were when they debuted?
Maybe you don't know it or you won't know it, but this is HRT not hispania or Campos Meta, is a new team that is starting from 0.
In what way is it a new team? It is based of Campos, simple fact.

And like you said, they start from zero, so they still dont have a secure base, else they didn't have to start again from zero after 2 seasons. Also contradicting, first you see everything is okay and then you say they start from zero
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

hrt
hrt
0
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:09 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: HRT F112 Cosworth

Post

Sure;
Image
Where are the sponsors?
I can see 8, i dont know maybe is only me.
Ad the driver line up isn't my excuse why they are laughable, it is a simple fact. I mean, Karthikeyan?! De La Rosa?! Seriously they can rather drive the car themselves.
I can name a few drivers who would be a better choice;
-V. Liuzzi
-J. d'Ambrosio
-Lucas di Grassi
-Bruno Senna
-V. Petrov
-R. Barrichello
-A. Sutil
-S. Buemi
-J. Alguersuari
-S. Speed
-S. Bourdais
-R. Doornbos
-G. van de Garde
-Y. Buurman
-K. Chandhok
-And from here on I got bored.
Incredible we think the same in somehting, we need to celebrate it!!
There are at least 50 drivers that are better for the job or have more money available than Karthikeyan and De LA Rosa. Hence why I name HRT unprofessional
OK, dont worry guys, montezomolo is fired we have in these forum the substitute.OK, No nonsense is your opinion, the facts will come.
That in 3 years their effort is just as professional as they were when they debuted?
Maybe you don't know it or you won't know it, but this is HRT not hispania or Campos Meta, is a new team that is starting from 0.[/quote]
[
]Uhh okay, where is their homebase located where they will styay for the next 30 years or so?
In what way is it a new team? It is based of Campos, simple fact.
And like you said, they start from zero, so they still dont have a secure base, else they didn't have to start again from zero after 2 seasons. Also contradicting, first you see everything is okay and then you say they start from zero[
]

Ok, im going to explain it, After Carabante sell the team to Thesan Capital, Thesan chose to move the team to Spain, the moved in november to Valencia their actual Base for 2012, Then they are looking to buy a better one in Spain that is why is a temporal Base, almost all the staff is new and probably the drivers will be as well, almost all the old team was working for Kolles, the old base was from Kolles and almost the team was from Kolles, that is why im saying that they are starting from 0.

ESPImperium
ESPImperium
64
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:08 pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: HRT F112 Cosworth

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Hispania was funded to the ammount of $68m last year, $59 in cash and $9m from non cash forms. That was to mid season to just before they got €0m from Red Bull for 11 GP starts for Riccardo and the €350,000 per day they got from Nathanael Berthon and Jan Charouz for their days in Abu Dhabi, Dani Clos paid €200,000 for his day as he was to be their TD this year. Charuz also paid another €350,000 for his FP1 appearance in Brazil. Also they recived €8m of a posible €21m from Tata for Karthekeyn and the €4m from Hero Motors for the same driver in India.

There was alot of cash in the team that was quickly consumed for the F112 project.

Hispania have the sponsorship needed in terms of smaller sponsors, but they lack that one or two larger sponsors that can sink €10m or more into the team and not blink.

Will they get the F112 shaken down and or tested before the first GP, posibly but its gonna be tight. I think they will be able to make it to the last Montelemo test and test for the first 2 tests with the F111 but with the new Williams Gearbox and no KERS just yet.

The key areas they must clear is the 3 crash test zones first and foremost. Then get the front suspension made as quickly as posible, as they will be using the Williams suspension on the rear.

I have faith they will get one car there, but they will have do dig deep and kick some arses to get the cars shaken down and tested before Australia.

Some have reported that they have wanted the FIA to allow them to use the F111 for the first 4 GP and then get the F112 to the Mugello test and then for the races for the rest of the season, i doubt this would be allowed.

hrt
hrt
0
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:09 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: HRT F112 Cosworth

Post

ESPImperium wrote: There was alot of cash in the team that was quickly consumed for the F112 project.

Hispania have the sponsorship needed in terms of smaller sponsors, but they lack that one or two larger sponsors that can sink €10m or more into the team and not blink.

Will they get the F112 shaken down and or tested before the first GP, posibly but its gonna be tight. I think they will be able to make it to the last Montelemo test and test for the first 2 tests with the F111 but with the new Williams Gearbox and no KERS just yet.

The key areas they must clear is the 3 crash test zones first and foremost. Then get the front suspension made as quickly as posible, as they will be using the Williams suspension on the rear.

I have faith they will get one car there, but they will have do dig deep and kick some arses to get the cars shaken down and tested before Australia.
That is exactly what i think.

wesley123
wesley123
204
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:55 pm

Re: HRT F112 Cosworth

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hrt wrote: I can see 8, i dont know maybe is only me.
Where?
I see TATA, Imar and a small one on the headrest, that's all.
Thesan isn't a sponsor, it is the teams owner and I see one on the front wing, but nowhere near 8. Unless you count the ones on the lower band of the sidepod.
Ad the driver line up isn't my excuse why they are laughable, it is a simple fact. I mean, Karthikeyan?! De La Rosa?! Seriously they can rather drive the car themselves.
I can name a few drivers who would be a better choice;
-V. Liuzzi
-J. d'Ambrosio
-Lucas di Grassi
-Bruno Senna
-V. Petrov
-R. Barrichello
-A. Sutil
-S. Buemi
-J. Alguersuari
-S. Speed
-S. Bourdais
-R. Doornbos
-G. van de Garde
-Y. Buurman
-K. Chandhok
-And from here on I got bored.
Incredible we think the same in somehting, we need to celebrate it!!
Let's throw a party!
There are at least 50 drivers that are better for the job or have more money available than Karthikeyan and De LA Rosa. Hence why I name HRT unprofessional
OK, dont worry guys, montezomolo is fired we have in these forum the substitute.OK, No nonsense is your opinion, the facts will come.
Just as these would come in 2010?
Ok, im going to explain it, After Carabante sell the team to Thesan Capital, Thesan chose to move the team to Spain, the moved in november to Valencia their actual Base for 2012, Then they are looking to buy a better one in Spain that is why is a temporal Base, almost all the staff is new and probably the drivers will be as well, almost all the old team was working for Kolles, the old base was from Kolles and almost the team was from Kolles, that is why im saying that they are starting from 0.
I agree with that. From the start I believe they already wanted to move to Spain, yet fail to do so. Now they sacked Kolles, efectively the one keeping the team alive to move all the way to a new base on the moment they were very advanced with the new car, so all new people are now working on a car that was in quite advanced state, knowing barely anything about it.

These guys now have to figure out a car without any previous experience or whatsoever, they will definetely be the backmarkers for next year.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

User avatar
Lurk
2
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:58 pm

Re: HRT F112 Cosworth

Post

Ad the driver line up isn't my excuse why they are laughable, it is a simple fact. I mean, Karthikeyan?! De La Rosa?! Seriously they can rather drive the car themselves.
I can name a few drivers who would be a better choice;
-V. Liuzzi
-J. d'Ambrosio
-Lucas di Grassi
-Bruno Senna
-V. Petrov
-R. Barrichello
-A. Sutil
-S. Buemi
-J. Alguersuari
-S. Speed
-S. Bourdais
-R. Doornbos
-G. van de Garde
-Y. Buurman
-K. Chandhok
-And from here on I got bored.
Err... DLR is one of the best driver to develop a car and it is exactly what HRT needs.
Plus: "van de Garde"? "Bourdais"? Really? Even Ide would be a better choice (yeah, at least we would animate the field :mrgreen: )

wesley123
wesley123
204
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:55 pm

Re: HRT F112 Cosworth

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excuse me but that is rubbish. You want to be competitive too and push the car to learn from it, De La Rosa is just too slow.

I can imagine the choice for that, but there are better drivers available to do the job
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

User avatar
Lurk
2
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:58 pm

Re: HRT F112 Cosworth

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It is one of the specificity of these drivers (DLR, Badoer, Gene).
They don't have to push the car at its theorical maximum to know what has to be done to improve overall performance and to match another driver liking.

This is why they are so appreciate in their teams despite a lack of speed.


Their only pb is that you cannot rely on them to get a top result. But I don't think that's a issue for HRT. They want to improve to close the gap with the midfield, not win races or get podiums.
They cannot afford fast drivers with good feedback so one driver to develop the car, the other driver exploit it until they close the gap. Then a change should be done.

Petroltorque
Petroltorque
2
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:18 pm

Re: HRT F112 Cosworth

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The features of test drivers is that they are consistent. Unfortunately for Badoer, Gene and I suspect De La Rosa is that they are consistently SLOW!
A team the size of HRT will not do much development and what little that is done is done by the designer NOT the driver. I would guess that they'd do one major upgrade for the full season. The driver provides feedback on setup and the aim for the team is to quickly optimise that setup during free practice.
Present day formula one means you'll never get a perfect setup even with a big team. So you'll need a driver who'll be competitive by carrying a car who's setup parameters are not perfect. Unfortunately De La Rosa does not fit that bill. In the ideal situation HRT need a young charger who's shown ability in the feeder formulae by posting results for unfashionable teams. They're not going to do that either in signing De La rosa they need euros from the other seat.

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:31 am

Re: HRT F112 Cosworth

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Petroltorque wrote:So you'll need a driver who'll be competitive by carrying a car who's setup parameters are not perfect. Unfortunately De La Rosa does not fit that bill.
However, he (and Rubens Barrichello, for that matter) fit the bill of being able to get a setup much much quicker.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

User avatar
Lurk
2
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:58 pm

Re: HRT F112 Cosworth

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Petroltorque wrote: A team the size of HRT will not do much development and what little that is done is done by the designer NOT the driver.
Only because they do not have a driver to give a reliable feedback. DLR has been hired exactly for that purpose.
Plus, as you said, they need someone to setup the car on each track in order to get the best of it. Once more, DLR should be perfect to do that. He could even help the other driver in this.

Do you really think that DLR, Gene and Badoer would have been paid by the best teams during the last 10 years for nothing?

Petroltorque
Petroltorque
2
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:18 pm

Re: HRT F112 Cosworth

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In 30 years of following F1 I have yet to hear of a driver leading development. I've heard of race engineers relying on driver feedback to get a better handle on setup. But with modern F1 with an emphasis on telemetry and simulators most teams now rely soley on computers.