Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

[Adamski]

Hi all!

Just a simple post to refresh the topic.

I think this is the time in the season, when teams are facing the 'do or die' situation.

It looks like this year there aren't any significant package or system that gives you enough benefit to dominate the field. Understanding and extracting the maximum from the tires are crucial.

To me, similarly to the last two years, Mercedes a bit off with the upgrades. Other teams get small bits to every race and improve their car but We just optimizing our set-up. I think the result and race pace in Bahrain showed, it's not enough.

Somewhere read it, that maybe in Mugello, the W03 will feature a new exhaust solution similar to the Red Bull's and Sauber's.

Any other news about fresh upgrades?

What they can do now? More set-up work to keep the tires longer? Work on aero?

What will be the most beneficial way?

[Raptor22]

well that just reinforces what I said. The cars may be capable of more but the tyres limit the maximum extraction. So the balance is grip performance against lifespan and there's a narrow window for achieving that.

BAsically what Michael said is correct; the tyres and who can luck into the ideal set up for quali and the race is going to to be victor. Theres little driver skill involved since they are so far below the limit. Its not a game of engineer engineer. He who has the best race engineer and mechanics is going to get into that set up.

This is not F1

[NonNewtonic]

Hi all!

Just a simple post to refresh the topic.

I think this is the time in the season, when teams are facing the 'do or die' situation.

It looks like this year there aren't any significant package or system that gives you enough benefit to dominate the field. Understanding and extracting the maximum from the tires are crucial.

To me, similarly to the last two years, Mercedes a bit off with the upgrades. Other teams get small bits to every race and improve their car but We just optimizing our set-up. I think the result and race pace in Bahrain showed, it's not enough.

Somewhere read it, that maybe in Mugello, the W03 will feature a new exhaust solution similar to the Red Bull's and Sauber's.

Any other news about fresh upgrades?

What they can do now? More set-up work to keep the tires longer? Work on aero?

What will be the most beneficial way?

About the uogrades in Mugello, it's still an unknown for all of us as we are not the one involved in the development of the car but talking about the amount of upgrades the team had I can't agree with you as for the last season as exmaple even tough the team didn't really introduce as much upgrades as the others but they still manage to maintain the gap with the front running teams like the Red Bulls. I think what Mercedes really concern about the upgrades is the quality of the upgrades not the quantity! For example Eric Boullier claims that last year Lotus introduced as many upgrades as Red Bull but they still peform like a midfield team! Talking on the upgrade introduced by other teams so far what I could hope is Mercedes is currently focusing all their resources on the major upgrade that will bring half of a second improvement rather than introducing minor upgrades every race that may only bring a thousandth of a second. Personally what I think about the outcome of the Bahrain result is all about tyres not so much on the upgrades.

[AosudiF1]

I think what Pirelli did last year was interesting, but this year, maybe, they are pushing too hard.

The races look more like endurance than F1.

It would be good to have slightly better tyres, so the problem is who prefers to push, get better laptime, and stop before the guy who nurses the tyres, and prefers to stop one less time.

Right now, they are all nursing their tyres, and still, they fall apart. Maybe Pirelli guys went too far.

Still, it is a good effort, and the races have improved a lot.

[ArchAngel]

I personally think that if Merc get their act together Schumacher will end up outperforming Rosberg this year. He's been getting into his stride ever since late last year. When he first joined the team in 2010 he had a bad time getting used to the new regulations, tyres, etc. But I think he's slowly getting used to it and all he needs is clean races to shine.

Indeed in the last handful of races last year, Michael had already hit his stride. If not for his usual misfortune in one or two of those last few races, he would've outscored Nico for the season. He was able to carry that much-improved form this year, but his ridiculously unrelenting bad luck has reduced all that performance & hard work into exercises of futility. If this year goes the way 2011 did, with his fortunes taking a turn for the better only in the latter half of the season yet ultimately ending up too little too late, then it's near-impossible to see Schu coming back in 2013 for more of the same... guano.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/new ... On-Bahrain
...It's Martin Brundle speaking:

"On the journey home I was talking with two F1 drivers, a world champion and a multiple race winner, and they had very similar concerns to Michael in that they can't push the cars anywhere near their limits. 'Physically my granny could drive the race' quipped one to underline how far away from the limits they are."

The multiple race-winning grandson sounds like Webber. Maybe the WDC is Button.

This is not F1

It's certainly not the F1 of old which separates the men from the boys, with balls-to-the-wall, seat-of-your-pants racing, and furious, unrelenting chases up & down the track from start to finish. The fastest men & machine on 4 wheels are now evolving into the best tyre-nurses on the planet thanks to Pirelli.

[xpensive]

well that just reinforces what I said. The cars may be capable of more but the tyres limit the maximum extraction. So the balance is grip performance against lifespan and there's a narrow window for achieving that.
...

I seem to remember that Bridgestone was instructed by MrM and the FIA to deliberately give a performance limit to the tyres?

Guess it's the same with Pirelli?

[raymondu999]

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/new ... On-Bahrain
...It's Martin Brundle speaking:

"On the journey home I was talking with two F1 drivers, a world champion and a multiple race winner, and they had very similar concerns to Michael in that they can't push the cars anywhere near their limits. 'Physically my granny could drive the race' quipped one to underline how far away from the limits they are."

The multiple race-winning grandson sounds like Webber. Maybe the WDC is Button.

I'm thinking Lewis actually. Even since 2010 he's said that he hated the tyre management, despite the fact that the 2010 tyres were quite long life anyways. I don't think Button will verbally degrade something that's worked out in his favor.

[MIKEY_!]

Yes webber and hamilton i think. The granny comment is definitely something i can imagine webber saying.

[raymondu999]

Well knowing Martin, his asdvice to them would probably be to nurse the Pirellis like your favorite granny

[Cocles]

I think there's added interest for the Mercedes upgrades since this will be the first bit of kit we get to see that has unquestionably been done under Costa.

[ivand911]

Heck the SAuber's and Force India's made Mercedes look completely stupid today. Actually, Mercedes are completely stupid.

Er, you base that on what exactly?
Finally in comparison Schumacher and Force India, Schumacher started 22nd on the grid. A full 12 places behind Di Resta, and 9 behind Hulkenberg.
He managed to finish ahead of Hulkenberg and made up 12 places on the grid beating both Saubers in the process.

What about Williams(Maldonado)? They kill us in Bahrain. This for me is the most consistent team than all. Fast in Australia, Fast in Malaysia, Fast in China, Fast in Bahrain. Very good race pace. MS couldn't match Pastor at all. Pastor was catching Nico fast. He have the same tyres strategy as Michael.
http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 0Maldonado
http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... 0Maldonado

[yener]

What are they going to do at test nows? Find a way which make the tyres last longer?
I mean even if you are 1 second faster compared to the rest, it doesnt matter.

I think its frustating for all the team and especially the mechanics because improving the car with 1 seconds doesnt make you win a race.

F1 is dying.

[Websta]

Personally, I would expect being able to balance between pace and being easy on the tyres to be much more difficult than just blitzing it. But it is also unfair as certain driving styles are easier on tyres, whilst a sprint race would be fairer. The challenge is a lot greater now.

[raymondu999]

A sprint race would favor the blitzing drivers too though. It's very hard to find a compromise between the two.

[f1316]

A sprint race would favor the blitzing drivers too though. It's very hard to find a compromise between the two.

The compromise is much more easily found with refuelling. The problem with 2010 wasn't necessarily the tyres but the tyes *combined* with the lack of refuelling. If you have to stop because of fuel anyway, it doesn't really matter if your tyres could go 20 laps longer - you have to stop because otherwise you'll run out of fuel. There's still an element of tyre management available - if you can preserve the tyres so you have enough grip to allow you to really push on the, for example, two extra laps of fuel you've got over your opponent, as MSC always did brilliantly, that's a useful skill - but it's a much closer balancing act between pushing and preserving.

The mistake the FIA made was, rather than acknowledging the mistake they made in banning refuelling, they tried to fix it with tyres. Producing a purposely *bad* component on the car is the epitome of the artificiality many have complained about, and certainly not the spirit of the pinacle of motor racing.