From the European GP onwards I don't disagree. In fact if you look at qualifying up till then it was pretty even between him and Webber, but from there on in he started to dominate with only a couple of hiccups. Remember Webber's back to back victories in Spain and Monaco? He was on top of the world at that point and looked like the better Red Bull driver. But then Vettel upped his relative pace - the reported rumour ever since was that Red Bull came up with new engine maps for Vettel that increased the off throttle blowing thus eliminating Webber's driving style advantage.Lycoming wrote:To be fair, vettel had several unfortunate mechanical retirements in 2010 that Webber did not have. Certainly the gap between vettel and webber was much closer back then, but Vettel was still solidly ahead on pure pace more often.
The STR was far from a crap car in 2008.bettonracing wrote:Maybe it's just me but I feel people give the Torro Rosso years more credit than they deserve.
Outside of the win @ Monza 2008, & passing Hamilton (almost depriving him of a championship) in Brazil the same year, both rain races..., I can't say I saw (remember?) any brilliant drives out of Vettel that year. I mention the rain because while a significant amount of luck is necessary, he does stand out for doing GREAT in two rain races that year with a (IMO) crap car.
At the same time, I've lost no respect for Vettel for taking a fast car and squeezing every mph of speed out of it in damn near every session (2011), particularly when requested (e.g. pull out of the DRS zone).
Regards,
Kurt
Actually Vettel was comfortably beating Webber from beginning in 2010. Vettel would have won the first three races if it weren't for the realiability issues.myurr wrote:Vettel wasn't originally that spectacular with the blown diffuser. If you remember the first few races on 2010 Webber was matching him and beating him - his driving style of taking a late apex and getting back on the throttle was helping to get the most from the EBD. But then Red Bull brought in the off throttle blowing and the car moved towards suiting Vettel's driving style by taking away the natural benefit that Webber had and making Vettel's style the one that got the most from the car. I'm sure there are additional subtleties but that's my understanding.
I agree.Nando wrote:The Monza race wasn´t as glamorous as people like to think.
The universe aligned that day for Vettel.
Webber crashed out in Korea in full wet conditions and rear-ended a Caterham while running in 10th place. These were his DNFs. Reliability issues happened while Vettel was leading and costing him 3 wins.Nando wrote:The Monza race wasn´t as glamorous as people like to think.
The universe aligned that day for Vettel.
Just like his 2010 title that he not once during the whole season led.
Vettel had 3 retirements in 2010. Webber had 2.
Even with his mistakes, the Vettel+RB6 package had enough in hand to win the title that year. The car let him down many times, such as Turkey, Bahrain, Melbourne, Spain, Korea...Nando wrote:Just like his 2010 title that he not once during the whole season led.
of course they were. He wouldn't have had the pace to beat the top cars had it been dry, or had it been down to a pace contest amongst the various driver+car packages. Still - a Toro Rosso pulling 12seconds on a McLaren in as many laps is an impressive feat - albeit it was the number 2 McLaren driver.GrizzleBoy wrote:[...].Nando wrote:The Monza race wasn´t as glamorous as people like to think.
The universe aligned that day for Vettel.
If it was a dry race and all that was left to decide who gets pole/wins was who could just drive their car, then the Monza 2008 win definately would have had more significance, but as it turns out, other peoples mistakes were a larger factor for him winning than his ability to beat them in a race.
Retirements are hardly the measure of a driver. Hamilton had more DNFs than Button in 2010. Vice versa in 2011 (if memory serves) but the guy with more DNFs still outscored the guy with less DNFs.Nando wrote:Vettel had 3 retirements in 2010. Webber had 2.
It was hardly the reason for why it was written by me.raymondu999 wrote:Retirements are hardly the measure of a driver.Nando wrote:Vettel had 3 retirements in 2010. Webber had 2.