2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
zyphro
zyphro
1
Joined: 02 May 2012, 16:33

Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Post

bhallg2k wrote:It's not exactly ridiculous. But, all lift, whether it's pointed down or up, is drag.

That said, Ferrari induced a bit of actual lift on the front of the 248F1 at Monza in 200000000006. It seemed to work pretty well, too.

Image
(Note: victorious gesture)
I saw that GP live; twas a glorious day.

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Post

Chuckjr wrote:Is it possible to configure the DRS (when opened), to create a very slight lift so the car becomes a bit lighter, and therefore a few MPH faster and use less fuel, or is that a ridiculous idea?
It doesn't matter if you have 5 tons of downforce, 0 downforce/lift, or 5 tons of lift. You still have to accelerate the same mass. - the lift/downforce is working in a different direction perpendicular to your acceleration. But as bhallg2k says - generally to generate lift OR downforce you have to pay for it in drag.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

LionKing
LionKing
4
Joined: 26 Jun 2010, 22:03

Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Post

raymondu999 wrote:
Chuckjr wrote:Is it possible to configure the DRS (when opened), to create a very slight lift so the car becomes a bit lighter, and therefore a few MPH faster and use less fuel, or is that a ridiculous idea?
It doesn't matter if you have 5 tons of downforce, 0 downforce/lift, or 5 tons of lift. You still have to accelerate the same mass. - the lift/downforce is working in a different direction perpendicular to your acceleration. But as bhallg2k says - generally to generate lift OR downforce you have to pay for it in drag.
What about friction? If you have 5 tons of downforce pushing the car down in normal direction, wouldn't you have a lot more friction?

Even if the required energy to accelerate the car may be dominated to overcome drag, some energy will be used for friction.

bhall
bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Post

Friction at the back of the car is also traction. Teams all have boners for traction, and rightly so as it makes cars go forward.

That's why Ferrari "lifted" the front of the car, which makes some sense at Monza.

foxmulder_ms
foxmulder_ms
1
Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 20:36

Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Post

My guess;

McLaren > Lotus > Ferrari > RedBull

I expect a Hamilton win. However, again, rooting for Raikkonen to have that win after his come back.

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Post

LionKing wrote:What about friction? If you have 5 tons of downforce pushing the car down in normal direction, wouldn't you have a lot more friction?
Friction on a tyre is quite complicated IMO. In a lab if you were doing friction coefficient experiments between a wooden block and a table top - then more friction would mean the block slides slower. But on a tyre, you want more friction between the tyre and the road for better grip.

Rolling resistance I suppose could be somewhat offset by this lift though I suppose. There would be less deformation in the contact patch (given that the tyre remains rounder in the lack of that extra vertical loading, and less engine power is consumed to deform the tyre to the contact patch.

During DRS open, when you're not needing that friction there? Hmm... it's an interesting thought.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

User avatar
AnthonyG
38
Joined: 03 Mar 2012, 13:16

Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Post

Can you choose a very high 7th gear and cover the rpm-range with kers?
Thank you really doesn't really describe enough what I feel. - Vettel

simieski
simieski
9
Joined: 29 Jul 2011, 18:45

Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Post

Gerhard Berger wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:Why would he be? That was an alternator failure, not an engine failure.
i'm not sure if you can replace the alternator or whether it has an FIA seal on it. He did take a new engine in Silverstone, despite the Valencia engine being a new one. Not sure if the Valencia engine will be used again.
Article 5.20 of the 2012 tech regs permits replacement of an alternator without incurring penalty. If an FIA seal needs to be broken as part of the replacement procedure this must be carried out under FIA supervision.
Thank you to God for making me an Atheist - Ricky Gervais.

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Post

D'Ambrosio gets it... official confirmation.

So. Let's add a little je ne sais quoi to the question then. What happens if he wins it in dominant fashion, and Raikkonen is nowhere near the podium? What happens then?
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

stefan_
stefan_
696
Joined: 04 Feb 2012, 12:43
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Post

Things go normally - Jerome would get a little attention and a spotlight on him, but Romain returns for Singapore, as he is pushed hard by Total.
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

RB7ate9
RB7ate9
2
Joined: 13 Jul 2011, 03:03

Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Post

If Jerome pulls off a stunning Monza win by virtue of his driving skill (aka no experimental "device" that happens to be the magic rocket), and Kimi falters to the back by virtue of the track (aka no DNFs due to mechanical failures, non-fault collisions, etc.) then the question will be in the Lotus garage about Grosjean's behavior on the track. He'll have a lot to answer for. Considering the possibility that Lotus will pool the majority of its resources of the WDC behind Kimi, Jerome may be the kid that helps Lotus rise in the WCC.

I don't believe that Jerome will manage such a Roman Triumph, but should he, it will be an interesting conference room discussion at Enstone between the team principals and Romain.

CHT
CHT
-6
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 05:24

Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Post

raymondu999 wrote:D'Ambrosio gets it... official confirmation.

So. Let's add a little je ne sais quoi to the question then. What happens if he wins it in dominant fashion, and Raikkonen is nowhere near the podium? What happens then?
Like how Vettel win with STR?

zyphro
zyphro
1
Joined: 02 May 2012, 16:33

Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Post

raymondu999 wrote:D'Ambrosio gets it... official confirmation.

So. Let's add a little je ne sais quoi to the question then. What happens if he wins it in dominant fashion, and Raikkonen is nowhere near the podium? What happens then?
Lol, a lot of forums where a large Kimi fan-base exists, will go into meltdown :lol: .

bhall
bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Post

raymondu999 wrote:D'Ambrosio gets it... official confirmation.

So. Let's add a little je ne sais quoi to the question then. What happens if he wins it in dominant fashion, and Raikkonen is nowhere near the podium? What happens then?
He would immediately be tipped to replace Massa at Ferrari next year, and "sources" would "confirm" that talks have been underway for weeks.

User avatar
FrukostScones
162
Joined: 25 May 2010, 17:41
Location: European Union

Re: 2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Post

I expect a McLaren domination. Kimi and Alonso will fight with Vettel for the last place on the podium. Jerome D'ambrosio will crash in the first lap. Yawn. Can't wait for Singapore.
weather report says 29 C and sunny with clouds on all three days.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.