How is the forum rating system doing?

Everything about this website and its content. Here you will find update announcements or requests for feedback. Questions about layout, functionality, content, and your suggestions are welcome.
User avatar
Kiril Varbanov
147
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:00 pm
Location: Bulgaria, Sofia

Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post

I'd also add that if we have statistical data we can have the option to filter out:
1. The rated posts in a thread, i.e. "Show only posts with rating > 0"
2. The posts rated sub-zero ...

Have we had too much fanboys around? I suspect so, I've been attacked by some of them outside the forum but recently, I've seen just two hidden posts, though I may have missed some.
Also, if someone is going to leave this place - that's not necessarily a bad thing, I'd say. Yes, this is Internet community, but at the same time this is kinda like a building - do you want bad neighbors? There are rules ...

User avatar
hollus
Moderator
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:21 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post

Tomba wrote: ...
Then regarding disabling the voting system in race threads. I think it's a good suggestion to start with there, and I'm eager to implement it as soon as possible.

I did read a suggestion about still allowing downvotes, but we need to think about that for a moment. Still enabling downvotes without upvotes will result in all race threads having a negative total rating, which is hardly what we're trying to bring across. A few downvotes in a race thread do not mean the thread is useless, and showing a negative thread rating would give the wrong impression.
...
Time to take action on not allowing votes in the race threads? I have voted up the occasional post in race threads, posts that had a content. But a quick glance today shows users going from zero or negative rating (which was a useful piece of information) to middle single digits (which is noise), all based opinion. Opinion ping-pong matches can quickly turn into high scoring matches, as most threads are suffering from sign bias: few people can downvote, many people can upvote, so that many votes results in high positive ratings, unless something offensive is being said to overcome the downvote activation energy.

I see the system working well overall so far, but I fear what will happen when noise adds to noise adds to noise (with sign bias) and fanboys start hitting +25.
I would like to see a paleontologist.

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:58 pm
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post

hollus wrote:Time to take action on not allowing votes in the race threads? ...Opinion ping-pong matches can quickly turn into high scoring matches, as most threads are suffering from sign bias: few people can downvote, many people can upvote, so that many votes results in high positive ratings, unless something offensive is being said to overcome the downvote activation energy. I see the system working well overall so far, but I fear what will happen when noise adds to noise adds to noise (with sign bias) and fanboys start hitting +25.
I'm afraid you are right if I compare the race thread with a classical technical thread like "Talking to a turbo expert" or a tyre thread. The last race thread (Abu Dhabi) got more than 30 points in three days, has virtually no technical content and is so full of yinyang that the mods have already threatened to close it down. The turbo thread on the other side attracted only 22 points in more than a year and has won great accolades from the silent readers who don't post in it. At least I have several PMs telling me how enjoyable it is. You cannot say that from the race thread. So please Tomba close the race threads and team threads for the rating system. If that can't be done then the positive votes should at least not counts towards a users reputation. Unless we see positive action on this we will get a bunch of fanbois with power user status I'm afraid.

While I generally appreciate the effort of Tomba to give us the rating system I have to say that there is a second issue that remains unsolvable so far. I'm talking about abuse of the voting system that seems more or less impossible to avoid. People who post popular opinions and very little else - in terms of technical value - abuse their negative voting power to simply vote down contributions that do not agree with their opinion. That is not what is supposed to happen. Negative votes are to indicate that a post has no value. It should not really matter if you disagree with it's content. If the posted facts are useful and a fair contribution to the discussion you have to respect that and should not down vote. At the moment I have no recipe to solve the problem but to ask all sensible +25 users to watch out for abuse and balance it by giving adittional up votes. It is in our own hands to make this a forum that is enjoyable.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

AlpineF1
AlpineF1
0
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:21 pm

Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post

I agree, 1 certain member got 6 points on the Abu Dhabi thread just because he was throwing insults around, credibility should be earned and thats not whats happening.
And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high.
Ayrton Senna

My blog
Twitter
Facebook

Dragonfly
Dragonfly
23
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:48 pm
Location: Bulgaria

Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post

Also, if someone is using more than one account, he could easily pump up his status.
F1PitRadio ‏@F1PitRadio : MSC, "Sorry guys, there's not more in it"
Spa 2012

User avatar
Steven
Owner
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2002 5:32 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post

Dragonfly wrote:Also, if someone is using more than one account, he could easily pump up his status.
True, but using 2 accounts at the same time is against the rules and will lead to both accounts being banned.

adam2003
adam2003
-1
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:53 am

Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post

Tomba wrote:
Dragonfly wrote:Also, if someone is using more than one account, he could easily pump up his status.
True, but using 2 accounts at the same time is against the rules and will lead to both accounts being banned.
Why cant i down post people because i need +25, really how many people have more than +25 not many?

Its unfair i see stupid comets and insults people should loose their stripes but the system wont allow it.
Also i got down posted and doesn't show me who did it, Is their a way to see it

I wish the old way was back where more posts you go up on the yellow circles until "master"

Also its silly making people vote for reputation sometimes people do fantastic sections of information and don't get a vote for it the system is flawed change back to the old way :)

User avatar
Cam
45
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:38 am

Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post

With great power, comes great responsibility.

Having the power to down vote does not automatically assign the right to use it. People have feelings and when you down vote their posts, people can get upset and hurt. This is certainly factored when I act. What happens when you down vote someone into the negative? I did that recently and feel guilty for doing it. The post deserved it, but I still feel bad. Maybe I really upset that person, so I use the down vote with great care. I'd rather try to help members than punish them.

And it's this lack of understanding that power brings, in the last couple of posts, which has me greatly concerned. Many people are gagging for the right to down vote without once writing about the possible consequences. That's a scary thought.

Also, I have some suggestions as to why some posts get voted and some not.

a) perhaps the post is too technical for some people? People are not going to vote up what they don't understand, so really technical stuff may get passed over. I know this is true for me in some circumstances. I simple have no idea how to understand some of that stuff, so how can I vote it up - it may be wrong for all I know.

b) the underlining reasons of the voting member differs to yours. For instance, I'm much more interested in the moral, day to day marketing and overall functions of the sport - which I consider technical in their own right, rather than the mass equations and graphs showing flow separations etc. So I'm much more likely to act on the posts that interest me, rather than others - the vice versa could also be true for other members.

It's important to look at all sides of why something is, or may be, and not simply jump to conclusions. Once you do that, understanding why something got a vote and something didn't' starts to make sense.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
― Socrates
Ignorance is a state of being uninformed. Ignorant describes a person in the state of being unaware
who deliberately ignores or disregards important information or facts. © all rights reserved.

adam2003
adam2003
-1
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:53 am

Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post

Cam wrote:With great power, comes great responsibility.

Having the power to down vote does not automatically assign the right to use it. People have feelings and when you down vote their posts, people can get upset and hurt. This is certainly factored when I act. What happens when you down vote someone into the negative? I did that recently and feel guilty for doing it. The post deserved it, but I still feel bad. Maybe I really upset that person, so I use the down vote with great care. I'd rather try to help members than punish them.

And it's this lack of understanding that power brings, in the last couple of posts, which has me greatly concerned. Many people are gagging for the right to down vote without once writing about the possible consequences. That's a scary thought.

Also, I have some suggestions as to why some posts get voted and some not.

a) perhaps the post is too technical for some people? People are not going to vote up what they don't understand, so really technical stuff may get passed over. I know this is true for me in some circumstances. I simple have no idea how to understand some of that stuff, so how can I vote it up - it may be wrong for all I know.

b) the underlining reasons of the voting member differs to yours. For instance, I'm much more interested in the moral, day to day marketing and overall functions of the sport - which I consider technical in their own right, rather than the mass equations and graphs showing flow separations etc. So I'm much more likely to act on the posts that interest me, rather than others - the vice versa could also be true for other members.

It's important to look at all sides of why something is, or may be, and not simply jump to conclusions. Once you do that, understanding why something got a vote and something didn't' starts to make sense.

What puzzles me is why have ratings, it doesn't mean anything just means someone liked your post maybe found it funny, or gained info from it.

I think the old system was better

User avatar
Cam
45
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:38 am

Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post

adam2003 wrote:\What puzzles me is why have ratings, it doesn't mean anything just means someone liked your post maybe found it funny, or gained info from it.
You answered you're own question - "just means someone liked your post maybe found it funny, or gained info from it". Spot on, that's exactly why the voting system is there. When you get a +1, its a reward from other members to say "hey. nice information, other people may like this too". Its a tool to help you, as the poster, to know you're doing a good job, and a tool for the readers to take note of this post.

Downvoting is the exact opposite. It's a tool to let the poster know what they posted was of little or no value, so perhaps that line of posting should be reconsidered in future. It's also a tool to allow readers to bypass posts that waste time. Time is precious, so why waste it reading drivel.

Whinging, complaining and slagging off others without thinking first is not a good place to be. That's the easy road. Post good info, remain positive, be constructive, help people and generally be a good member. No-one could begrudge you for doing that and you may just get rewarded. Certainly not a bad thing to try.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
― Socrates
Ignorance is a state of being uninformed. Ignorant describes a person in the state of being unaware
who deliberately ignores or disregards important information or facts. © all rights reserved.

User avatar
banibhusan
1
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:08 pm

Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post

Tomba wrote: True, but using 2 accounts at the same time is against the rules and will lead to both accounts being banned.
Just out of curiosity, does this forum have any provisions to find out if anyone is using multiple accounts to pump up the rating?

mx_tifoso
mx_tifoso
0
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:01 am
Location: North America

Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post

Yes it does. And it affecting the rating system would be the least of our worries when someone is using two accounts, that can always be undone in a jif.
Forum guide: read before posting

"You do it, then it's done." - Kimi Räikkönen

Por las buenas soy amigo, por las malas soy campeón.

adam2003
adam2003
-1
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:53 am

Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post

Cam wrote:
adam2003 wrote:\What puzzles me is why have ratings, it doesn't mean anything just means someone liked your post maybe found it funny, or gained info from it.
You answered you're own question - "just means someone liked your post maybe found it funny, or gained info from it". Spot on, that's exactly why the voting system is there. When you get a +1, its a reward from other members to say "hey. nice information, other people may like this too". Its a tool to help you, as the poster, to know you're doing a good job, and a tool for the readers to take note of this post.

Downvoting is the exact opposite. It's a tool to let the poster know what they posted was of little or no value, so perhaps that line of posting should be reconsidered in future. It's also a tool to allow readers to bypass posts that waste time. Time is precious, so why waste it reading drivel.

Whinging, complaining and slagging off others without thinking first is not a good place to be. That's the easy road. Post good info, remain positive, be constructive, help people and generally be a good member. No-one could begrudge you for doing that and you may just get rewarded. Certainly not a bad thing to try.
I mean as in the following

Say "tom" had +10 but 8 of them are for jokes that people have liked and the other 2 points are he as insulted someone and people have liked it.

So when i look at him as i hardly come on and see +10 i think " he must be very informative person" but really hes not.

Also i was down voted maybe because they didn't personally like my view, does that give them the right to down vote me?
I wish it showed the person who down votes you as its cowadly

Also may i add i read a post earlier was really detailed and great went to vote, and guess what im not aloud to vote as no 1 has voted for me so this has stopped to contributing to the forum.... utter joke!!
Last edited by Steven on Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed blue text formatting

User avatar
Steven
Owner
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2002 5:32 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post

@adam,

first of all, there is no need to be frustrated about a reputation of 0. There are many people with that level, and it does not prevent you to do anything that you would have been able to do without the voting system. Of course, if you'd like to vote, I can only recommend you to put some effort in a few posts, helping other users or teaching them something new. It is this what usually gets rated by other users.

At the same time, this also shows how the voting system was designed. It is not a popularity contest, nor is it a system where people should upvote posts which they like. The moderators are putting in effort to make sure that this does not happen, and where needed members are informed about the system's operation. It is intended for people to rate posts which they think are useful for others to read. As such, it should be easier to find useful content, and to know what others find interesting.

So far it has worked reasonably well. Tweaks are continuously being discussed, but I'm sure it will eventually show to be an added value to the f1technical forum.

adam2003
adam2003
-1
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:53 am

Re: How is the forum rating system doing?

Post

Hi why have you changed my font back to black? It gives you the option to change it on here, you would have disabled it otherwise?

Also I understand what you are saying. But I want to vote on people who give good information. Unfortunately I am not very technical so no one will ever give me a +1 unless i crack a joke. Just feel im being left out