Ferrari LaFerrari

[mikep99]

More of the same: Speed, noise, sideways action, smoke I love it, pure adrenaline , pure passion =D>

[ringo]

P1 killer? I think so...

[NoDivergence]

Don't think so.


That LaFerrari is rolling like a lost ship at sea. Terrible for aero

[Felipe 92]

Don't think so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj29plvUkqA

That LaFerrari is rolling like a lost ship at sea. Terrible for aero

I agree with you. Also La Ferrari has 360kg of downforce and McLaren 600kg, I think it makes up for the 47bhp deficit. In race mode P1 sits so much closer to the ground.

[George-Jung]

Don't think so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj29plvUkqA

That LaFerrari is rolling like a lost ship at sea. Terrible for aero

And my girlfriend's sister's boyfriend's brother thinks the opposite..

So.. un till there has been a proper test with both cars we can't say anything.
For now we can only say that both cars are fast and beautiful.. nothing more nothing less.

[Cold Fussion]

Don't think so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj29plvUkqA

That LaFerrari is rolling like a lost ship at sea. Terrible for aero

I agree with you. Also La Ferrari has 360kg of downforce and McLaren 600kg, I think it makes up for the 47bhp deficit. In race mode P1 sits so much closer to the ground.

47 Hp down for how long? The P1 has no useful capacity for energy recovery in track driving, so once it has the batteries fully depleted it's at a big disadvantage.

[Felipe 92]

47 Hp down for how long? The P1 has no useful capacity for energy recovery in track driving, so once it has the batteries fully depleted it's at a big disadvantage.

To be honest I have never read that P1 can't have energy recovery whilst in race mode as you suggested. Talking about acceleration figures both cars are matched until the 180 mph mark. And there isn't much racetracks where you can reach more than that for a significant amount of time.

[mikep99]

47 Hp down for how long? The P1 has no useful capacity for energy recovery in track driving, so once it has the batteries fully depleted it's at a big disadvantage.

To be honest I have never read that P1 can't have energy recovery whilst in race mode as you suggested. Talking about acceleration figures both cars are matched until the 180 mph mark. And there isn't much racetracks where you can reach more than that for a significant amount of time.

Here is what Autocar's Steve Sutcliffe comments are about energy recovery for each of the three Hyper cars

What separates them mostly obviously here, though, is the way they harness and redeliver their electric power. In the 918 and P1 you quite quickly run out of e-puff if you drive them hard for sustained periods, and the only real way to get it back is to slow down a bit until the batteries can regenerate, mainly via the engine in the P1 (on a small throttle opening in a high gear) or via the brakes in the 918.

In the Ferrari, however, you harvest power all the time, and there is no 'e-mode' as such. As a result, you have access to the full 950bhp all of the time, which effectively means you have another couple of hundred horsepower to play for much of the time.

[ltitus]

Steve Sutcliffe put his for in his mouth in this video. The P1 regenerates on deceleration. So every single second you get of the throttle the batteries are recharging.

[George-Jung]

Steve Sutcliffe put his for in his mouth in this video. The P1 regenerates on deceleration. So every single second you get of the throttle the batteries are recharging.

But on an overall lap, you are more on the throttle than off.. so therefor probably the batteries will not be recharged enough to go flat-out all the time...?

[Richard]

In the Ferrari, however, you harvest power all the time, and there is no 'e-mode' as such. As a result, you have access to the full 950bhp all of the time, which effectively means you have another couple of hundred horsepower to play for much of the time.

Aha! Perpetual motion!

I suspect this member of the technical press is muddled? As I recall the McLaren charges the battery when the the engine has spare capacity - ie the throttle calls for 200 bhp, but the engine might run at 250 so it can use the excess 50 to boost the battery? To stretch it to an extreme the driver might be jumping on and off the throttle, but the engine might sit at continuous full power because it will be diverting the power to the batteries when the driver is off throttle.

Is the Ferrari similar or doe it only use braking generation like the old KERS in F1?

[Cold Fussion]

47 Hp down for how long? The P1 has no useful capacity for energy recovery in track driving, so once it has the batteries fully depleted it's at a big disadvantage.

To be honest I have never read that P1 can't have energy recovery whilst in race mode as you suggested. Talking about acceleration figures both cars are matched until the 180 mph mark. And there isn't much racetracks where you can reach more than that for a significant amount of time.

The P1 has no regenerative braking, and no exhaust recovery. The only time the car recovers energy is in off throttle situations (potentially partial throttle?), so in a racing situation where you rarely ever lift and coast, the P1 wont be regenerating energy. It's possible they could use the regeneration as a traction control, but I suspect this is unlikely to be the case. Both the 918 and LaFerrari do regenerative braking, so both are able to have long sustained period of electric power available, unlike the P1.

[Powerslide]

la ferrari seems like an amazing achievement. i also love the ferrari arrogance shrugging any all electric mode. instead, using the electric motor when torque is needed a.k.a torque fill, what mclaren calls it. ferrari has also won the brake feel race because they have manage to retain feel yet regenerative. that v12 and bespoke monoque chassis is all fabulous and makes it a truely special car. it is also the lightest, eventhough it has the biggest engine. that is truely remarkable.

for me, it has to be the porsche, well, because maybe i am getting on a bit and tend to be a bit fussy with the design aspect of a car. it has a hybrid system similar to the 919 race car making it four wheel drive on demand, regenerative brake, roof can go off, wonderful interior, not too racey but sporty enough for a super road car. race interior for road does not cut it for me unless driving to a track and the porsche is the least track day of the three. porsche has also manage to make so many things going on and off operate in such a linear fashion.

the p1, well, performance is right up there with la ferrari. i dont know about downforce. thats up to what the customers wants in grip, think the p1 has more. the thing about the p1 is, it delivers the number of course and most likely that is its forte or persona but that turbo v8 cant even cut with porsche's 918 v8 let alone ferrari v12. to get close close to 900hp with a naturally aspirated engine is such an achievement i feel that exclusivity eludes the mclaren. yeah, it too has torque fill to eek out turbo lag but for that money? suspension is very close to the mp4-12c, so is the engine, gearbox and chassis. the la ferrari is just about as bespoke one can get bar maybe the engine and the 918 spyder is the most bespoke of the lot. mclaren couldnt even afford to dial in regenerative braking, it does not even have a KERS. if im not mistaken i read somewhere that, no more battery power is availible even before a lap of nurburgring. they could have at least have it on on at other driving modes. spending a million euros on a car, part sharing with another road car would be a bit of a put off.

[bhall]

From what I've read, the P1 charges its batteries with the ICE in off-throttle conditions. The car can be run in a full-electric mode for about 10km, a hybrid mode in which the ECU seamlessly meshes power from the ICE and electric motor, i.e. all 904bhp are available for use, but not necessarily all at once, or it can be run in "race mode" in which the electric motor supplements the ICE on-demand rather like the KERS used in F1 from 2009-2013. Only in the latter mode, with IPAS engaged, will the car be powered by all 904bhp at the same time, and electric power is limited in all cases by the length of time spent off-throttle.

Because LaFerrari employs regenerative braking and harvests energy from its differential, it has 950bhp all the time. It also has a higher power-to-weight ratio (707bhp/tonne vs P1's 623bhp per tonne). Whether or not that's enough to make up for its relative lack of downforce (~500 lbs at ~120 MPH vs P1's 1320 lbs at 160 MPH), I dunno.

I think it's likely the P1 will be marginally quicker around the Nordschleife, but only on the first lap.

(I also think both cars, and the 918 Spyder, are soooo much more exciting than anything in F1 right now.)

[kooleracer]

From what I've read, the P1 charges its batteries with the ICE in off-throttle conditions. The car can be run in a full-electric mode for about 10km, a hybrid mode in which the ECU seamlessly meshes power from the ICE and electric motor, i.e. all 904bhp are available for use, but not necessarily all at once, or it can be run in "race mode" in which the electric motor supplements the ICE on-demand rather like the KERS used in F1 from 2009-2013. Only in the latter mode, with IPAS engaged, will the car be powered by all 904bhp at the same time, and electric power is limited in all cases by the length of time spent off-throttle.

Because LaFerrari employs regenerative braking and harvests energy from its differential, it has 950bhp all the time. It also has a higher power-to-weight ratio (707bhp/tonne vs P1's 623bhp per tonne). Whether or not that's enough to make up for its relative lack of downforce (~500 lbs at ~120 MPH vs P1's 1320 lbs at 160 MPH), I dunno.

I think it's likely the P1 will be marginally quicker around the Nordschleife, but only on the first lap.

(I also think both cars, and the 918 Spyder, are soooo much more exciting than anything in F1 right now.)

What makes them more exciting then the tech that is beinig used in F1 right now?

I find MGU-H, brake by wire, and 1.6 V6 turbo producing more then 750HP and all that with less fuel more exciting the be honest. The leap in technology that F1 has taken has been under-appreciated in my eyes.