22 best (current) F1 drivers

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wesley123
wesley123
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Re: 22 best (current) F1 drivers

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Juzh wrote:Vettel in the same group as webber haha. Have you been watching f1 since 2009?
I share his thought. Last year when his car wasnt there he was absolutely nowhere. A driver that excells(and thus AA) will show good things when his car did not, did Vettel do so? No he did not. He might be quick, but that only happens when his car is, if his car is not, he is not. Vettels success is imo linked to the success Newey has.

And yes people will always recall Monza 2008 in there, to show how much "AA" he is. But do I need to recall that the front of the field got taken out/took themselves out by the weather? He would never had won that if the top teams were still there. He simply maximised his result when others screwed up.

Then we have his team mate, Webber. He might not be the quickest, but he is consistent, and he was consistent when his car was not. He was still on a decrnt level when his car was not. And that is something that counts.

Just compare Vettel to Alonso and take a look why he is not in AA
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

mcalex
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Re: 22 best (current) F1 drivers

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“I’ve got a bit of a weak spot for Raikkonen - he’s the kind of driver who if you make the car 0.1 seconds quicker, he will find you 0.2secs. Now he is back up to speed and you can see the glint in his eye a little bit.”

... how good Kimi really is ...

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raymondu999
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Re: 22 best (current) F1 drivers

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wesley123 wrote:I share his thought. Last year when his car wasnt there he was absolutely nowhere. A driver that excells(and thus AA) will show good things when his car did not, did Vettel do so? No he did not.
While I dispute nothing that you wrote, Wesley - all of it is true and factual,generally speaking - but I think the point is that in 4 years as identical machinery (save for a couple of occasions here and there) Vettel has always had more victories, more podiums and more points per year than Webber. Which obviously - puts Webber below Vettel (and Vettel above Webber, if you catch what I'm saying)
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wesley123
wesley123
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Re: 22 best (current) F1 drivers

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raymondu999 wrote:
wesley123 wrote:I share his thought. Last year when his car wasnt there he was absolutely nowhere. A driver that excells(and thus AA) will show good things when his car did not, did Vettel do so? No he did not.
While I dispute nothing that you wrote, Wesley - all of it is true and factual,generally speaking - but I think the point is that in 4 years as identical machinery (save for a couple of occasions here and there) Vettel has always had more victories, more podiums and more points per year than Webber. Which obviously - puts Webber below Vettel (and Vettel above Webber, if you catch what I'm saying)
True, Webber isnt on the same level as Vettel. He is actually slower, but he has the ability to 'ignore' the car it's problems and put in decent/good results, even when the car is not perfect, that is something Vettel is missing, something that is really needed to put him in class AA
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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raymondu999
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Re: 22 best (current) F1 drivers

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I don't believe that to be the case with Vettel and Webber. IMO they both have the ability to control malhandling cars - just that it happens in a way that they handle *different* maladies better. Whenever the front is more stubborn to turn in, IMO Vettel struggles more than Webber - as was showin in qualifying in the early-season RB8. But as the rears degraded more in the race and allowed a stronger front relative to the rear, Vettel has shown stronger - as we saw in the races.

Then if we have the opposite - IMO Vettel shows better. Look at 2010 vs 2009 and 2011 - when they altered the front tyres in 2010 and sent the balance rearwards, Mark showed better in 2010.

In Mark's own words:
The fronts do not bite as extremely and the rears have better lateral stability. Sebastian prefers it the other way around
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Juzh
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Re: 22 best (current) F1 drivers

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wesley123 wrote:
Juzh wrote:Vettel in the same group as webber haha. Have you been watching f1 since 2009?
I share his thought. Last year when his car wasnt there he was absolutely nowhere. A driver that excells(and thus AA) will show good things when his car did not, did Vettel do so? No he did not. He might be quick, but that only happens when his car is, if his car is not, he is not. Vettels success is imo linked to the success Newey has.

And yes people will always recall Monza 2008 in there, to show how much "AA" he is. But do I need to recall that the front of the field got taken out/took themselves out by the weather? He would never had won that if the top teams were still there. He simply maximised his result when others screwed up.

Then we have his team mate, Webber. He might not be the quickest, but he is consistent, and he was consistent when his car was not. He was still on a decrnt level when his car was not. And that is something that counts.

Just compare Vettel to Alonso and take a look why he is not in AA
amm. nope. I'm tired of people downgrading vettel all the time just because they feel the need to make themselves feel better by doing so. Putting him in the same group as webber is just silly and shows obivous hate towards him.
australia - webber beaten by vettel no problems
malaysia - vettel was heading towards 4th (maybe 3rd) if not for now bankrupt mobile chicanes aka HRT
china - webber just manages to beat vettel on the last lap i think
bahrain - webber +40s
spain - vettel > webber
monaco - the only race where webber truly beat vettel in 2012. But if' we're using that kind of standards we might just as well put hamilton together with button.
canada - vettel 4th, webber 7th
europe - alternator failure for vettel
great britain - race long brake problems for vettel, still 3rd, so this is not something I'd call being beaten.
all remaining races vettel destoryed webber

Why are you always so politicaly correct raymondu? If you'd even think about putting alonso who got beat by massa with no contest last four races or hamilton anywhere else but the A group, people here would come down on you like there's no tommorow. Which is kinda sad, because there's always jsut a few people around here who start all that pointless threads and accussations. Dunno why mods even keep this open.

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Lurk
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Re: 22 best (current) F1 drivers

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Webber ran half the season without KERS or with others technical issues.
- Australia : no KERS in qualifying
- Barhein: no KERS from the start of the race
- Canada : no KERS in qualifying
- Europe : no DRS during qualifying
- Germany : gearbox change
- Spa : gearbox change
- India : KERS on and off then complete failure during the race
- Abu Dhabi : KERS pb in practice
- USA : alternator failure

and I'm sure I missed some...

No Lotus
No Lotus
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Re: 22 best (current) F1 drivers

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As great as Vettel and Alonso are, I think Hamilton is the current best (and second best of all time). He proved his superiority over Alonso his rookie year. It's a huge shame he's now going to be wasted on Mercedes.
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