2013 Japanese GP - Suzuka

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iotar__
7
Joined: 28 Sep 2012, 12:31

Re: 2013 Japanese GP - Suzuka

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komninosm wrote:
spin1/2 wrote:Lotus' mistake was to cover Webber at the 1st stop, in order to maintain the lead. Instead they should've stuck to the 2 stopper from the beginning. They didn't have the race pace as RBR but they messed up their strategy by trying to race different cars at different times - webber in the beg, and vettel later.

By having web on 3-stop instead of 2, rbr earned themselves a 1-2. Gros would've won ahead of web-vet if rbr.
I agree. Lotus should not have tried to cover Webber at all. If they went with a proper two stopper and covered Vettel the result would be Webber-Grosjean-Vettel 1-2-3.
[Both] - it's a bit working backwards from the result (I'll do that too of course), but forgetting hard tyres pace difference, it wasn't because of early stop, it happened much earlier than expected, "proper two-stopper" wouldn't do it against Vettel, small chance if he was stuck behind Webber--> <--Grosjean twice(?). Webber on the other hand - yes.

About Lotus: hards are slower and any scenario against Vettel is not feasible, so it's against Webber who has better pace on hards but not as good as Vettel. Pitting early [23(?)] would force him to stay on stretched 2 stopper with unknown outcome, mediums are better for Lotus and it's a reverse situation - but that's only theory. Timing of stops, I felt that it wasn't optimal in terms of defending 2nd but nevermind, splitting hair.

Another one is penalised (and outraged) for going off the track, this time he didn't get the luxury of stewards asking him to give back position. So where were you Ricciardo when R.G. got robbed in Hungary? Like Hulkenberg, so much worse, so much blatant and clear case and they whine? [They say he "lost" time not gained]. It was meters from a clean overtake, no one forced him off at centimetres range like Massa did, he just overshot the corner. Why can't it happen to "high profile" driver :evil: ?

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Juzh
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Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: 2013 Japanese GP - Suzuka

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radosav wrote:@ JUZH What are you talking about???? Keep your comments at technical level !!!!
:?: This is a race a thread and we're talking about the race? You have nothing more to say?

dxpetrov
dxpetrov
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Joined: 24 May 2012, 15:39

Re: 2013 Japanese GP - Suzuka

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radosav wrote:@ JUZH What are you talking about???? Keep your comments at technian level !!!!
His comments are on point. It is you that fail to or don't want to accept or understand!? Webber's third sector through that chicane was comical! The only time he took proper wide line and on kerbs he managed to overtake Gro.

radosav
radosav
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Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 20:46

Re: 2013 Japanese GP - Suzuka

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dxpetrov wrote:
radosav wrote:@ JUZH What are you talking about???? Keep your comments at technian level !!!!
His comments are on point. It is you that fail to or don't want to accept or understand!? Webber's third sector through that chicane was comical! The only time he took proper wide line and on kerbs he managed to overtake Gro.
He managed to get close to Grosjean due to traffic, what are you talking about???[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... awmti_WKBE[/youtube]

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gandharva
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Re: 2013 Japanese GP - Suzuka

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Juzh wrote:Vettel perfectly forced grosjean on the tight inside line trough the chicane and then got a much better exit taking a wider line. One thing I noticed is that Vettel was constantly gaining on grosjean trough that final chicane by going aggressively over the kerbs. Something webber failed to do.
Webber's 3 stop was 100% a wining strategy if vettel had been stuck behind gro for 6 laps as web was.
Exactly. Vettel prepared this overtake before the chicane. Webber failed to do the same. Vettel went wide at the beginning of the chicane to get the better exit. It's somewhat the same Hulkenberg did last week to keep Alonso and Hamilton behind.

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SectorOne
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Joined: 26 May 2013, 09:51

Re: 2013 Japanese GP - Suzuka

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The Vettelism runs high on the forum these days.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

Mandrake
Mandrake
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Joined: 31 May 2010, 01:31

Re: 2013 Japanese GP - Suzuka

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radosav wrote:I am not sure that lap times show that Webber was harder on tyres and that his tyres were going off. This is his statement after the race: ''“After that first stop the guys said we were still on two [stops]. No problem, look after the tyres, get to the target lap, and that was the plan. I was looking to wait, off the back of Romain, and try to squeeze up to the back of him between laps 28 and 31, 32, which was the target lap.” Webber said.

“And then I think on 25 the guys said ‘we’re going three-stop’, which was five laps shorter than the two-stop anyway. I asked the guys ‘are you sure this is right?’ and they said ‘yes, we’re going to give it a go’. And when you give it a go you’ve got to give it 100%, and that was it.” So Webber backed off a bit.
I'm not sure if Webber is playing the fair game in those interviews. He has always talked suspiciously when something didn't go the way he wanted.

Webber could have very well finished on a 2-stopper, but I believe he would have finished 2nd or 3rd in any situation. Had he just followed RG's strategy he could only have hoped for the undercut. On track he would not have passed RG, I'm sure of that. On the mediums he was nowhere as much faster than Vettel was. And he's reportedly harder on the primes as well. So I believe that he would have been passed by Vettel on track in a 2-stop scenario as well.

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Unc1e_M0nty
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Joined: 14 Mar 2012, 15:49
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Re: 2013 Japanese GP - Suzuka

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Donuts wrote:Fernando Alonso (on the team orders): "Or do like Red Bull does - one car does two stops, one car does three stops, and they finish first and second. This is a much easier life."
Usual wisdom dicatates that by splitting strategies your guaranteeing to get it wrong at least once.

It's a measure of Red Bulls speed that they can split the statergies and still get a one two.

dxpetrov
dxpetrov
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Joined: 24 May 2012, 15:39

Re: 2013 Japanese GP - Suzuka

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SectorOne wrote:The Vettelism runs high on the forum these days.
And it should! The guy deserves all the praise and accolades possible...

acidtech
acidtech
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Joined: 16 Mar 2013, 11:43

Re: 2013 Japanese GP - Suzuka

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webber wasn't harder on his tyres, that's pure nonsense !

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gandharva
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Re: 2013 Japanese GP - Suzuka

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SectorOne wrote:The Vettelism runs high on the forum these days.
Haters gonna hate...

Every good driver would have done it. E.g. Alonso also did the same in Suzuka. It's not to praise Vettel for this overtake, its more to blame Webber for his overtaking skills. Btw, it's not the first time this year that Webber has problems when it comes to overtaking.

dxpetrov
dxpetrov
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Re: 2013 Japanese GP - Suzuka

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gandharva wrote:
SectorOne wrote:The Vettelism runs high on the forum these days.
Haters gonna hate...

Every good driver would have done it. E.g. Alonso also did the same in Suzuka. It's not to praise Vettel for this overtake, its more to blame Webber for his overtaking skills. Btw, it's not the first time this year that Webber has problems when it comes to overtaking.
Yes, he had been rubbish at this throughout his career. Couple of good moves here and there but mostly very conservative and not aggressive enough in duels. Almost as if he got no ''balls'' and has been bailing out first 9/10 times in any overtaking attempt. That's been more prominent in last couple of years, probable due to his age and ''life threat awareness'' that everybody gets over the years, but even in Williams years Nick Heidfeld was destroying him in this regard. Obviously I am a RB fan, but I was fuming during this race while watching him behind that Lotus. And many races has been like this...

CHT
CHT
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Re: 2013 Japanese GP - Suzuka

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gandharva
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Re: 2013 Japanese GP - Suzuka

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dxpetrov wrote:Yes, he had been rubbish at this throughout his career. Couple of good moves here and there but mostly very conservative and not aggressive enough in duels. Almost as if he got no ''balls'' and has been bailing out first 9/10 times in any overtaking attempt. That's been more prominent in last couple of years, probable due to his age and ''life threat awareness'' that everybody gets over the years, but even in Williams years Nick Heidfeld was destroying him in this regard. Obviously I am a RB fan, but I was fuming during this race while watching him behind that Lotus. And many races has been like this...
"Rubbish throughout his career" / "Almost as if he got no ''balls'' "?
C'mon... don't talk BS and plz stay realistic. :wink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xq4JyrsV4I

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Vasconia
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Joined: 30 Aug 2012, 10:45
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Re: 2013 Japanese GP - Suzuka

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dxpetrov wrote:
SectorOne wrote:The Vettelism runs high on the forum these days.
And it should! The guy deserves all the praise and accolades possible...
But yesterday he received a great help from his team, yes he did a great overtake over Grosjean, something Webber didnt do.

But for the Gods sake, I dont know how anyone can seriosly think that a 3 stop strategy was the winner one. Doing 2 stops Webber would have won the race, but RB didnt want this. Vettel did a good race but he didnt need to do this, and Rb will still try to convince everybody that there is an equaly treatment for both drivers, please... :roll: