MotoGP 2014

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
622
Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: MotoGP 2014

Post

Agreed !!
to a more modest degree 'to slide (drift) or not to' was the question even 40 years ago, Sheene was not enthustiastic
and Surtees mentioned this in the 50s, likewise the Brands Hatch scratchers 50 years ago

IMO physics suggests ......

the higher the power: weight ratio the more beneficial is a late-apex line that sacrifices apex speed for earlier/better exit
(the reason Moto GP lines/technique are different to the '250 line')
earlier/better exit is related to slide/drift

and the wider the rear tyre the more useful/easier is the slide/drift
because different parts of the contact patch have different velocities according to their radial distance from the axle
in cornering the centre of the contact patch will be rolling steadily matched to the passing track surface
but away from this there will be a mismatch of rolling velocities, some rubber being scrubbed one way, some the other way
so if the rider throttles towards wheelspin the total amount of rubber in matched contact doesn't sharply reduce
ie with the wide Moto GP tyre it's much easier/safer to slide/drift than with a narrower tyre (and to trail brake)
(velocity mismatch with wide tyres is literally a (mechanical) drag that would harm the performance of a lower-powered machine)


physics also suggests some things about rider weight and size (ie Pedrosa relative to the average)

he cannot get the same combined lean angle, or the same benefit in front:rear weight distribution
he may benefit from needing less cornering or braking force, or even suffer (eg in the wet) from having less
he can get better acceleration or need to use less of the limited fuel to get equal acceleration

so are some tracks favouable to Pedrosa ? (or unfavourable ?)

zonk
zonk
69
Joined: 17 Jun 2010, 00:56

Re: MotoGP 2014

Post

Bridgestone to withdraw from MotoGP™ after the 2015 season

http://www.bridgestonemotorsport.com/ch ... 015_season

Huntresa
Huntresa
54
Joined: 03 Dec 2011, 11:33

Re: MotoGP 2014

Post

zonk wrote:Bridgestone to withdraw from MotoGP™ after the 2015 season

http://www.bridgestonemotorsport.com/ch ... 015_season
Time for Pirelli to join and make proper Soft tyres :P

User avatar
Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: MotoGP 2014

Post

Tommy Cookers wrote:IMO physics suggests ......

the higher the power: weight ratio the more beneficial is a late-apex line that sacrifices apex speed for earlier/better exit
(the reason Moto GP lines/technique are different to the '250 line')
earlier/better exit is related to slide/drift
There are also some other factors like weight and traction, but sure power/weight is the critical one.

I´ve been mx driver for some years and this rule is even more important here since traction is quite poor. Comparing mxgp and mx2 you can easily see how mx2 bikes almost always go to the outside while mxgp bikes go a lot more to the inside of the corner. And this was a lot more noticeable with 2 stroke bikes, 125cc always had to go as wide as possible, if you slow down too much to go to the inside, you´re dead.

But I´m not sure if traction may be even more important, because the difference between 250 2t or 450 4t was unbelieveble, after a ride with a 450 my kx250 felt like a 125...

I guess on tarmac traction is not so crucial as there´s more than enough
Tommy Cookers wrote:and the wider the rear tyre the more useful/easier is the slide/drift
because different parts of the contact patch have different velocities according to their radial distance from the axle
in cornering the centre of the contact patch will be rolling steadily matched to the passing track surface
but away from this there will be a mismatch of rolling velocities, some rubber being scrubbed one way, some the other way
so if the rider throttles towards wheelspin the total amount of rubber in matched contact doesn't sharply reduce
ie with the wide Moto GP tyre it's much easier/safer to slide/drift than with a narrower tyre (and to trail brake)
(velocity mismatch with wide tyres is literally a (mechanical) drag that would harm the performance of a lower-powered machine)
You´ve just solved one of those basic things I´d never fully understand... yes I knew wider tires have more drag, that´s basic, but I didn´t understand how it could be so important or the difference so high to use tires that small on the smaller bikes. Now I got it, great explanation, thanks!

One more point for you sir! :D

User avatar
Juzh
161
Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: MotoGP 2014

Post

So who in the name of all that is holy is going to stop Mark Marquez? I think it can not be done. Not this season anyway.

JimClarkFan
JimClarkFan
27
Joined: 18 Mar 2012, 23:31

Re: MotoGP 2014

Post

I seen the future today with Pol Esp, the way he is drifting that yamaha rear is very Marc like. It is something that moto2 riders use a lot. Why I found it interesting though is because every other yamaha rider keeps their bike neatly in line. I thought there was something about the yamaha chassis that prevented it from throwing out the rear but Pol was throwing that bikes rear into the corners this weekend like it was a Honda, so I'm very surprised.

I also have a strong feeling that both Lorenzo and Pedrosa will not be at their current teams come next year. I am certain Danny is out, and Lorenzo just seems like a man resigned to his fate (which I feel is being ousted). I think both could end up at Suzuki, or perhaps one at Ducati?

I am predicting that Pol Esp will end up in Yamaha alongside Rossi but I have no idea who might end up beside Marc at Honda. I think that Honda is a very open seat, I would like to say Scott Redding or even Alex Esp or Dovi... but it could be a rider from a different class altogether. The moves this season are going to be very interesting that's for sure.

Rossi's rejuvenation if unbelievable. There is something special about a person who can stay that hungry for so long. Reminds me of the mental attitude Alonso and Schumacher and Senna have/had. I think they are all cut from the same cloth.
Last edited by JimClarkFan on 18 May 2014, 16:31, edited 1 time in total.

JimClarkFan
JimClarkFan
27
Joined: 18 Mar 2012, 23:31

Re: MotoGP 2014

Post

Juzh wrote:So who in the name of all that is holy is going to stop Mark Marquez? I think it can not be done. Not this season anyway.
I think this season is over already.

I do however feel that Pedrosa is flattering Marc somewhat on that Honda. I don't think Marc's talent is worth 1 full second on the rest of the field in quali, I think that Honda is by far the best bike with the best rider and that is a pretty devastating combination.

User avatar
turbof1
Moderator
Joined: 19 Jul 2012, 21:36
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: MotoGP 2014

Post

I want to reiterate that Marc has a weakness: his starts. He almost got bowled out by Lorenzo. As long as he doesn't fall it doesn't matter though. The absolute dominant drive from P9 or P10 back to the front in about half the race was just another blow to the competition. But if he happens to fall, he probably will not get back to P1, although I have to be careful since he could fall next race and prove me wrong.

Rossi was a nice face to see at the front; he had a much more inspired drive then Lorenzo.
#AeroFrodo

User avatar
Pierce89
60
Joined: 21 Oct 2009, 18:38

Re: MotoGP 2014

Post

turbof1 wrote:I want to reiterate that Marc has a weakness: his starts. He almost got bowled out by Lorenzo. As long as he doesn't fall it doesn't matter though. The absolute dominant drive from P9 or P10 back to the front in about half the race was just another blow to the competition. But if he happens to fall, he probably will not get back to P1, although I have to be careful since he could fall next race and prove me wrong.

Rossi was a nice face to see at the front; he had a much more inspired drive then Lorenzo.
Rossi has beaten Lorenzo in every race so far. Jorge's riding style doesn't work well with Bridgestone's Honda specials. Lorenzo leans over further in the turns and that doesn't work with the stiffer construction Honda requested from Bridgestone.(according to Lorenzo anyway)
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

User avatar
mikeerfol
68
Joined: 20 Apr 2013, 22:19
Location: Greece

Re: MotoGP 2014

Post

Anyone else who thinks Marquez will do a 18 out of 18?

User avatar
Bomber_Pilot
20
Joined: 28 Jan 2011, 14:19

Re: MotoGP 2014

Post

mikeerfol wrote:Anyone else who thinks Marquez will do a 18 out of 18?
If there is a wet race, my money is currently on Rossi :)

User avatar
mikeerfol
68
Joined: 20 Apr 2013, 22:19
Location: Greece

Re: MotoGP 2014

Post

Bomber_Pilot wrote:
mikeerfol wrote:Anyone else who thinks Marquez will do a 18 out of 18?
If there is a wet race, my money is currently on Rossi :)
Marquez is a quick learner (remember Le Mans last year) and if there was rain, the Ducatis (at least Dovi) would be closer to the top.

User avatar
NathanOlder
48
Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 10:05
Location: Kent

Re: MotoGP 2014

Post

Bravo Sam Lowes.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC

User avatar
Shrieker
13
Joined: 01 Mar 2010, 23:41

Re: MotoGP 2014

Post

NathanOlder wrote:Bravo Sam Lowes.
And on a speed up no less. His battle with Kenan Sofuoglu last year in wss proved he had the goods.
Education is that which allows a nation free, independent, reputable life, and function as a high society; or it condemns it to captivity and poverty.
-Atatürk

JimClarkFan
JimClarkFan
27
Joined: 18 Mar 2012, 23:31

Re: MotoGP 2014

Post

Love this
Amazing!