Idea's for the next engine formula

[Töm87]

Engine formula?

3l standard or 1,5l turbo that's ist.

That's all the regulations you need.

if that were the regulation why would anyone choose a 3l NA?

Well a, 3 liter formula one engine without fuel or rev limit would likely produce above 1000 HP these days.
While a 1,5 turbo could go higher in maximum power for sure, i don't think it's granted that it would be the better overall choice.
Many things to consider.

[AnthonyG]

Perhaps we should set a specific power output, a min number of cilinders and leave the teams be? (And a limit to the amount of power harvested by the ers)

[langwadt]

Engine formula?

3l standard or 1,5l turbo that's ist.

That's all the regulations you need.

if that were the regulation why would anyone choose a 3l NA?

Well a, 3 liter formula one engine without fuel or rev limit would likely produce above 1000 HP these days.
While a 1,5 turbo could go higher in maximum power for sure, i don't think it's granted that it would be the better overall choice.
Many things to consider.

30 years ago with regulations like that the obvious choice was turbo, why should that have changed ?

[Töm87]

Because technological progress has made a huge leadp in 30 years?

[langwadt]

Because technological progress has made a huge leadp in 30 years?

that's goes for both engine configurations

[Cold Fussion]

Because technological progress has made a huge leadp in 30 years?

that's goes for both engine configurations

And arguably, turbo technology has improved in the last 30 years more than NA engines.

[tjblackwell68]

Fewer/clearer regulations are better.
I was originally going to say that a fixed/restricted fuel with no other restrictions outside of safety would be best. But, after reading the idea of max HP measured at the wheels I have changed my mind. Max HP could be changed to suit each track in the interest of safety, they could go to tracks that they were once too fast for.
When regulations become too restrictive money plays too important of a role, with fewer options to pursue those with the most money could try them all. When you have almost infinite options to pursue, the best will know what is worth pursuing.
I would love to see a Wacky Races assortment cars flying around the track. 2 stroke, 4 stroke, 1 to 16 cylinder, inline, V, boxer, turbine, rotary, external combustion, fuel cell, and a few we have never seen before.

[beelsebob]

Max HP is a terrible idea. If you don't want a spec series, this is what you should be really scared of.

[FoxHound]

No restrictions. No limits. No red tape. Just give them 100kgs of fuel to burn as they see fit, with a budgetary cap for design, build and development. Best way is a maximum headcount, along with a list of materials permissable. And of course accounts.

Any exotic material innovated will need to have the same cost to market value as those allowed.

Dominant engines will be made available to at least 1 customer team outside of any existing arrangements.

Upgrades or wholesale changes can take place in season.

[Tim.Wright]

Max HP is a terrible idea. If you don't want a spec series, this is what you should be really scared of.

How would a HP limit create a spec series? It would be anything but by definition.

If the constructors converge to a common solution (this will take many years I promise you) then at least its a REAL technical optimum instead of something dreamed up by the governing body.

[beelsebob]

Max HP is a terrible idea. If you don't want a spec series, this is what you should be really scared of.

How would a HP limit create a spec series? It would be anything but by definition.

Being a spec series has nothing really to do with everyone using the same components. The core is that everyone has the same specifications limiting teams in a particular specification simply means that all teams will develop to that specification and stop, resulting in... a spec series. Limiting max horsepower is effectively equal to setting the horsepower of all of the engines.

[beelsebob]

No restrictions. No limits. No red tape. Just give them 100kgs of fuel to burn as they see fit

+1, though I'd rather "just give them 4.2GJ of energy in any form they like, to use as they see fit".

[FoxHound]

@Tim wright

To what end would any manufacturer want to get involved in a horse power limited formula?
Its a ridiculous idea, can you imagine it?

"Oh we'll spend 200 million on our V12 turbo with a death star exhaust" Only for Cosworth or Mahle show up with a 4 pot turbo that can do exactly the same thing not because they are ingenious, but because of regulation?
A silly proposal wouldn't you admit?

Imagine this rule then gets passed onto aero? A limit on the allowable force generated by air.
In time we'll have no ingenuity and a grid full of cars that have been recylced through the years.

[FoxHound]

No restrictions. No limits. No red tape. Just give them 100kgs of fuel to burn as they see fit

+1, though I'd rather "just give them 4.2GJ of energy in any form they like, to use as they see fit".

That'll do.

[Tim.Wright]

@Tim wright

To what end would any manufacturer want to get involved in a horse power limited formula?
Its a ridiculous idea, can you imagine it?

"Oh we'll spend 200 million on our V12 turbo with a death star exhaust" Only for Cosworth or Mahle show up with a 4 pot turbo that can do exactly the same thing not because they are ingenious, but because of regulation?
A silly proposal wouldn't you admit?

Imagine this rule then gets passed onto aero? A limit on the allowable force generated by air.
In time we'll have no ingenuity and a grid full of cars that have been recylced through the years.

If you put some thought into it instead of being so short sighted you will see it has some merit. Ironically you have +1'd an energy limit which in the end is bascially the same thing.

To rehash what I said a couple of pages ago;

...There's the small matter of deciding what type of power train is going to give you the best performance in the first place. Diesel combustion, petrol combustion, naturally aspirated, turbo, full electric, hybrid with recovery systems, fuel cell...

If you ever do get to the stage where everyone truley converg to one optimum and have no more devlopment potential left, then congratulations to motorsport because it would have just found a true optimum powertrain solution for weight, range, efficiency (aero and mechanical), driveability... For the first time in modern history it may have solved a real problem for the automotive industry instead of pissing copious amount of cash up against the wall to make a little carbon element bend a bit more to get around some arbitrary rules.

And that would be the whole point of the formula. To find a real performance optimum. Not something imposed by boardroom suits.

To be more realistic, I don't think there will be a convergence to a single solution. If not, why don't we see that today? Why are there still differences in powertrain implementation, front wings, cooling systems, suspension layouts??