Actual 2014 gearing from online videos

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Juzh
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Re: Actual 2014 gearing from online videos

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Here you go. Vettel's onboard with telemetry

vettel vs button - spa 2014

345 kmh... that's gotta be the fastest red bull ever went.

gruntguru
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Wow!

Low downforce setup + DRS + MGUK at mid straight. Sure adds up to a big difference in top speed.
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hollus
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This is the new gearing in the Bulls since Spa (in colors) compared to the old (in gray).
Image
As reported in AMUS, 2nd, 7th and 8th became longer (I couldn't find any data for 1st). They reported 3rd to 6th staying the same. The very small differences in 4th, 5th and 6th are likely errors in my method with the ratios staying the same, but I am not so sure about 3rd. It would seem logical to do that small change after 2nd became longer, but there is still a bit of wheelspin in 3rd, so my old data might have suffered from it.

These are the new measured ratios, compared to the old and to Toro Rosso's:
New Red Bull     n/a   12.42  9.71   7.85   6.49   5.48   4.73   4.28
Old Red Bull    19.02  13.51  9.91   7.83   6.46   5.52   4.89   4.42
Toro Rosso      16.00  12.43  9.30   7.71   6.49   5.47   4.72   4.28
Isn't it great to have a sister team to test your ratios for you? 7th and 8th are clearly copied from Toro Rosso. The changes in those gears are only about 3% towards longer, so fine tuning. Maybe to match a expected top speed. The change i 2nd is larger, almost 9%, and again the ratio seems copied from Toro Rosso, so maybe one could infer a ratio of 16.00 for 1st, also from the Toro Rosso book and tested for a few races after they changed it? 3rd and 4th are not Toro Rosso copies, though, so I guess they did not quite nail it with their change only for 1st gear. Alternatively this might reflect how much better the Bulls are in traction at medium-low speeds, with wheelspin being less of a worry.

Mclaren to follow soon...

And huge thanks to Juzh for posting the videos!
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hollus
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This is the new gearing in the McLarens as measured in Spa (in colors) compared to the old (in gray).
Image

These are the new measured ratios, compared to the old and to Toro Rosso's:
New McLaren     n/a   14.71 12.04   9.29   7.48   5.98   5.03   4.39
Old McLaren    19.38  12.58  9.35   7.73   6.34   5.45   4.84   4.37
These changes are quite extreme and the graph is a bit more difficult to read (the new gear in colors are missing 1st, but it has all old 8 gears in gray, with 8th and 3rd almost hidden). 8th gear is almost identical to before, probably untouched with the difference being errors on my side, so this doesn't affect top speed. This also means that the change probably has nothing to do with Spa and Monza (they changed already in Austria).
From 8th down, everything has become shorter, much shorter, in a progressive way; to the extreme that the new 4th is virtually identical (possibly really identical) to the old 3rd. Then they shy again, with 3rd and 2nd less than a whole gear away from the old values, but still extremely short, their new 2nd is in line with many team's 1st gear. In fact, they effectively raced using only 3rd to 8th gear in Spa, with 2nd being engaged only rarely in heavy traffic. They would stay in 3rd even below 70Km/h in the hairpins.
This also means that now they have a quite unique approach to gearing, with their 4th gear (very similar for everyone else), being approximately like every other team's 3rd.
Either they know something that everyone else is missing, or they blundered big time.

And huge thanks to Juzh again for posting the videos!
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gruntguru
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Re: Actual 2014 gearing from online videos

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hollus wrote:This is the new gearing in the Bulls since Spa (in colors) compared to the old (in gray).
As reported in AMUS, 2nd, 7th and 8th became longer (I couldn't find any data for 1st). They reported 3rd to 6th staying the same.
So at the 345 top speed at Spa the engine is doing a little under 12k - down from 12k+ with previous gearing? Suggests that the power peak is probably around 11k - 11.5k and 12k+ was a little down on power to realise the 345 kph.
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gruntguru
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hollus wrote:This is the new gearing in the McLarens as measured in Spa (in colors) compared to the old (in gray).
This also means that now they have a quite unique approach to gearing, with their 4th gear (very similar for everyone else), being approximately like every other team's 3rd.
Either they know something that everyone else is missing, or they blundered big time.
These engines undoubtedly have a very wide power/efficiency band and McLaren have probably traded a tiny bit of power/efficiency (due to the need to use a broader rpm band during acceleration) for a significant reduction in gear-shifts. Gear-shifts themselves cost time and fuel so an equal trade-off would still be a win for gearbox reliability.
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Juzh
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Re: Actual 2014 gearing from online videos

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Excellent job Hollus.

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hollus
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Update after Monza:
Ferrari seems to have changed only 8th gear, and they changed it in both cars. It is about 2.7% longer now, so about 9Km/h worth of top speed for a the same RPM. For all other gears I get values very similar to the old ones, close enough that I think I am looking at errors in the data and the actual ratios are likely unchanged. In any case, if they changed, then by 1% max. Ferrari had a noisier telemetry than all other teams since Australia for some reason. 1st gear missing (likely unused). The numbers below correspond to the newly measured values.
Force India did not change their ratios, but they did finally show their 8th gear. They (at least Perez) shift to it at 335-338Km/h but only if they expect to go to about 345Km/h or higher. Their ratio is good for 349Km/h at 11000r.p.m, for 402 at 13000 and for 475Km/h at 15000rpm, thus being slightly shorter than that of Mercedes (which is good for 480 Km/h).

This is the updated graph:
Image
McLaren really breaks the trend with that ultrashort 4th.

And updated calculated gear ratios:
Gear	Merc.	Will.	McLaren	F.India	T.Rosso	R.Bull	Lotus	Marus.	Ferrari	Sauber	Cater.
1	13.597	15.808		14.551	15.991	19.023		14.776		15.768	
2	11.509	11.238	14.706	11.562	12.429	13.508	13.612	11.871	11.279	12.197	13.800
3	9.577	9.600	12.044	9.519	9.305	9.913	10.173	9.533	9.333	9.411	10.016
4	7.879	8.021	9.291	7.904	7.713	7.825	8.006	7.713	7.795	7.751	7.885
5	6.299	6.635	7.481	6.293	6.486	6.460	6.725	6.667	6.660	6.761	6.561
6	5.105	5.702	5.984	5.122	5.471	5.524	5.704	5.811	5.792	5.882	5.548
7	4.299	4.953	4.953	4.396	4.723	4.886	5.039	5.149	5.076	5.214	4.967
8	3.888	4.401	4.387	3.926	4.281	4.418	4.350	4.603	4.488	4.667	4.484
Edit: After suggestions below, I checked again and the data for Mercedes's 8th came from only 3 datapoints, very close to each other, in China. After adding more and cleaner data from Monza, Mercedes' 8th came back 0.7% shorter than previously estimated, which leaves it only marginally longer than Force India's 8th. Close enough that one would consider the possibility that they are identical. I am not updating the graph or the ratios just yet, but just reduce its top speed by ~3km/h in your head...
Last edited by hollus on Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BanMeToo
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Re: Actual 2014 gearing from online videos

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I'm sure you've heard of this but Mercedes is supposedly changing their higher gears for Singapore.

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hollus
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And I bet Force India too.
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hollus
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AMUS wrote:Für Symonds ist der achte Gang völlig überflüssig. "Die Motoren haben so viel Drehmoment, dass wir auch mit einem Fünfgang-Getriebe auskommen würden. Das würde viel Gewicht und Platz sparen. Leider schreibt das Reglement den achten Gang vor. Früher hieß es mindestens sieben Gänge. Der Passus wurde gestrichen. Sonst hätten wir nie einen achten Gang eingebaut."
That's Pat Symonds saying that they would have been OK with only 5 gears, which would save space and weight; and that they only have 8 because the rules say so.
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Juzh
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hollus wrote:402 at 13000 and for 475Km/h at 15000rpm, thus being slightly shorter than that of Mercedes (which is good for 480 Km/h).
:shock: :shock:

Though I did hear by now lots of times FI and merc are running identical ratios because FI basically buys their GB from merc. Seems like 5kmh difference at 480 could be in the margin of error?
hollus wrote: That's Pat Symonds saying that they would have been OK with only 5 gears, which would save space and weight; and that they only have 8 because the rules say so.
That's maybe stretching it a bit, but 7 gears only could probably work just fine?

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hollus
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Re: Actual 2014 gearing from online videos

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My first reaction was "no way there is a 1% error", but actually... you are right. I had forgotten that Mercedes' 8th estimation came from only 3 datapoints captured in China in a very small amount of time from a car that was drag limited (which doesn't apply to any other gears in any other cars). After adding data from Hamilton in Monza, the estimate comes 0.7% lower and only 0.3% higher than Force India's 8th, and I guess that is within the margin of error ( I am too lazy to correct the global graph for anything smaller than a 1%). So maybe they are identical. 1st to 6th also look like they could be identical for Mercedes and Force India, after all they have to adjust the ratios with a finite number of teeth, it is not like they are infinitely adjustable.
But this leaves me a bit puzzled with 7th, where I get roughly a 2% difference and this time coming from a lot of data for both teams. That I do not believe to be an error in my numbers (but by now I should have learned to get my foot in my mouth). So that is a bit bizarre.

Talking of bizarre, Rosberg showed an interesting behavior in Monza respecting to gears. In the main straight he would often accelerate at full throttle in 7th until he became drag limited (about 329Km/h without DRS), and then shift to 8th, still at full throttle, but at a point where the engine would drop to 102xx RPM. He'd stay there for half to one second, and as a consequence of the power drop (drag limited), we would then drop to about 325km/h before needing to brake.
Why would he do this? The lap time penalty is negligible, but as a subtle form of lift and coast he would be saving only 2% of the fuel for 2% of the full throttle period... hardly worth it.
Can it be that the engine is happier with the lower revs? They were only about 115xx before the shift.
Any ideas?
Last edited by hollus on Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Juzh
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Most probably to save the engine and conserve fuel. Can't think of any other reason. Per rules 100 kg/h fuel rate is not permitted until 10500 rpm, so if he's dropping below that it mu be a fuel saving method. 2% is not negligible imo.

You probably meant 330 kmh, not 230.

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SectorOne
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Watching some onboards from Singapore now on the Merc and they can almost flick in 8th before braking for T1.
Not sure if they have shortened all the other gears but look forward to the new gear-visualization.

Edit: hmm.. seems their gear change might have decreased the performance, seems much harder to put down the power around Singapore.
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