Honda F1 project leader Yusuke Hasegawa has outlined a number of reasons why Honda has been struggling so badly in the beginning of the 2017 Formula One season. He confirmed that lots of problems were not discovered while running on the dynamo meter.
[/quote]superdowg316 wrote:No, considering Arai stated this months ago: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/honda ... e-for-2016a1b2i3r45 wrote:http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-web ... -2016.html
"Honda is set to retain their unique engine layout next season, with their small MGU-H positioned within the upper-rear portion of the engine block between the compressor and the turbo"
Is it true?
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That would be a vey dumb decisiondrunkf1fan wrote:The recent messages are in general mixed in nature. You could get the impression from multiple recent stories that Honda have two engines on the go, one based on the current layout which needs a fixed compressor/mgu-h but has extremely tight space to work with and how much they can 'fix' that layout is to my mind very questionable. They are also working on an alternate version that would be, IMHO Ferrari/Renault style, turbine moved back, compressor next to it as close to the back of the engine as you can get(like the turbine currently) mgu-h attached to the compressor rather than in the middle of the turbine/compressor as it is now.
Arai has for certain said on several occasions they need a big layout change, in the past couple of weeks people have said they are working on a fixed version of the current layout. I honestly suspect they are pursuing that avenue because if they don't they are more readily admitting defeat. No one likes failing and if they can get that version working you can say "ha, see, screw you guys, we knew it could work", but they have the more sensible approach ready to go.
The recent interview and the pretty dodgy/inaccurate recent article on Honda's problems on, was it motorsport.com or whatever, I took as mostly poor journalism and poor translation. He was pretty adamant after the last proper upgrade that a layout change was required and not possible before next year.
GoranF1 wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-te ... st-option/
So if wastegate tailpipe position is not mandatory,basically Prodrumou can put one WG pipe between left tyre and floor,one between right tyre and floor and do his magic all over again whit blown exhausts?
#aerogollumturbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
Don't you mean it is not possible to run a single stage axial COMPRESSOR? Not turbine.Abarth wrote:I think that most educated guesses must come to the conclusion that it's not possible to run a one stage axial turbine, since the required PR is >2.5.drunkf1fan wrote:[[...]Though it does appear to suggest that Piola believes this years engine uses a a radial compressor not axial and that both the compressor is tiny and the turbine is pretty dang small.
Sic, my bad, yes absolutely. Thanks for pointing it out, will correct it.trinidefender wrote:Don't you mean it is not possible to run a single stage axial COMPRESSOR? Not turbine.Abarth wrote:I think that most educated guesses must come to the conclusion that it's not possible to run a one stage axial turbine, since the required PR is >2.5.drunkf1fan wrote:[[...]Though it does appear to suggest that Piola believes this years engine uses a a radial compressor not axial and that both the compressor is tiny and the turbine is pretty dang small.
Don't be so sure. When hot gasses blow at both sdes of the rear, the aero boys can fix a diffuser, cloanda whatever of it. Remember from the first time they tried to ban blown diffusers.Thunders wrote:GoranF1 wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-te ... st-option/
So if wastegate tailpipe position is not mandatory,basically Prodrumou can put one WG pipe between left tyre and floor,one between right tyre and floor and do his magic all over again whit blown exhausts?
Nope.
https://twitter.com/ScarbsF1/status/654229302037381120
Mercedes are in agreement with increasing the token spend limit for next year allowing teams to catch up.ESPImperium wrote:Personally, i think the Honda 2016 power will be improved, but it all depends of weather or not the engine manufacturers can agree on how many Engine Tokens they can use in season next year, basically Mercedes needs to budge and allow Tokens to be used. Mercedes are pressing for all power units to be Homologated for the 1st Feb date for homologation. They are seemingly scared that Ferrari could use tokens to out develop them in season, and if Renault start the season with a strong unit and Total fuel, they could develop to their level in a year. Id say there will be in season development next year, but all will have 12 token to start the year and can spend 6 on two-3 token items and the rest on two and single token items.
The regs prevent the waste gate exits from being used that way. There's a whole topic about it if you are very bored.NL_Fer wrote:Don't be so sure. When hot gasses blow at both sdes of the rear, the aero boys can fix a diffuser, cloanda whatever of it. Remember from the first time they tried to ban blown diffusers.Thunders wrote:GoranF1 wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-te ... st-option/
So if wastegate tailpipe position is not mandatory,basically Prodrumou can put one WG pipe between left tyre and floor,one between right tyre and floor and do his magic all over again whit blown exhausts?
Nope.
https://twitter.com/ScarbsF1/status/654229302037381120
i think it is not allowed to do that as pipe must be in center of the car + amount of exhaust will be very small not like V8 engine.GoranF1 wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-te ... st-option/
So if wastegate tailpipe position is not mandatory,basically Prodrumou can put one WG pipe between left tyre and floor,one between right tyre and floor and do his magic all over again whit blown exhausts?
The manufacturers and the FIA have agreed to allow 32 development tokens again in 2016 - and to permit companies to apply them throughout the championship as they saw fit.
In addition, the sliding scale of increased restrictions has been pushed back - so 25 tokens will now be allowed in 2017. The numbers for subsequent years is subject to discussion.
And an allowance will be made for any new manufacturers who enter the sport to permit them an as-yet-undecided number of tokens in their first season, which previously was not allowed.
In addition, engine manufacturers have been permitted to supply year-old engines to customer teams. Previously, the rules dictated they had to supply the same-specification engines to all teams.
The agreement between the engine manufacturers needs to be approved by the next two stages of the F1 legislative process - the F1 Commission, on which all the teams have representation, and the FIA World Council.
One senior figure close to the negotiations said it was "quite unlikely that what was agreed will not happen".
Not necessarily. Ferrari are doing just fine and are only marginally behind Mercedes. The front mounted compressor is made out to be THE solution, but like every option there are always pro's and con's. Last year Mercedes log-style exhaust was pointed out as one of their main advantages as well, until they all of a sudden dropped it and reverted to a conventional tubular style exhaust. My point is, it's not as simple copying the current best design - data from simulation and testing needs to back it up. Whatever solution provides the best results, that the solution they should stick with.Blackout wrote:That would be a vey dumb decisiondrunkf1fan wrote:The recent messages are in general mixed in nature. You could get the impression from multiple recent stories that Honda have two engines on the go, one based on the current layout which needs a fixed compressor/mgu-h but has extremely tight space to work with and how much they can 'fix' that layout is to my mind very questionable. They are also working on an alternate version that would be, IMHO Ferrari/Renault style, turbine moved back, compressor next to it as close to the back of the engine as you can get(like the turbine currently) mgu-h attached to the compressor rather than in the middle of the turbine/compressor as it is now.
Arai has for certain said on several occasions they need a big layout change, in the past couple of weeks people have said they are working on a fixed version of the current layout. I honestly suspect they are pursuing that avenue because if they don't they are more readily admitting defeat. No one likes failing and if they can get that version working you can say "ha, see, screw you guys, we knew it could work", but they have the more sensible approach ready to go.
The recent interview and the pretty dodgy/inaccurate recent article on Honda's problems on, was it motorsport.com or whatever, I took as mostly poor journalism and poor translation. He was pretty adamant after the last proper upgrade that a layout change was required and not possible before next year.
Only by pepole who dont know what their talking about.ME4ME wrote:Not necessarily. Ferrari are doing just fine and are only marginally behind Mercedes. The front mounted compressor is made out to be THE solution, but like every option there are always pro's and con's. Last year Mercedes log-style exhaust was pointed out as one of their main advantages as well, until they all of a sudden dropped it and reverted to a conventional tubular style exhaust. My point is, it's not as simple copying the current best design - data from simulation and testing needs to back it up. Whatever solution provides the best results, that the solution they should stick with.Blackout wrote: That would be a vey dumb decision
Obviouly...data from simulation and testing needs to back it up. Whatever solution provides the best results, that the solution they should stick with.
