Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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vorticism wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 8:48 pm
They need to through that MGUH and the rest of the power unit into a first gen NSX. The compressor size change is stunning. How did they get the initial version so wrong? Bad math, or I seem to recall McLaren was also blamed at the time for requesting the smallest engine possible.
I think talking about that engine's turbo side "so wrong" is wrong.
If there were two different team to compare we could see if it was that bad or not.
The second issue was combustion system. We don't know what the engine could give if it work with pre chamber ignition system.
I think with a better combustion system 2016 pu were not be so much down compared to rivals.

vorticism
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:52 am

If there were two different team to compare we could see if it was that bad or not.
The second issue was combustion system. We don't know what the engine could give if it work with pre chamber ignition system.
I think with a better combustion system 2016 pu were not be so much down compared to rivals.
There were three other teams to compare it to. All four would have benefited from an ideal combustion system.

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atanatizante
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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If I were you guys, I would rather stop speculating on a particular field which is out of my expertise...

These are the following facts:

1.E10 represents only 10% of the total fuel mass
2.In order to compensate the loss of caloric power per kg brought by the ethanol they had to develop a new fuel which has more caloric power than last year, just to level the power output from 2021
3.Ordinary pump gasoline has many times fold greater solvability than ethanol Not to mention the special F1 fuel formulation in order to compensate the caloric power loss...
4.We are talking about solvability, which basically all of you confused with corosion. Please check Brittanica to edify you
5.There were at least 3 exceptional conditions that were occuring at almost the same time, which were nearly imposible to simulate in any particular lab condition
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dren
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I read it was a heat issue with the fuel system that has been fixed.
Honda!

Roostfactor
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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atanatizante wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:23 pm
If I were you guys, I would rather stop speculating on a particular field which is out of my expertise...

These are the following facts:

1.E10 represents only 10% of the total fuel mass
2.In order to compensate the loss of caloric power per kg brought by the ethanol they had to develop a new fuel which has more caloric power than last year, just to level the power output from 2021
3.Ordinary pump gasoline has many times fold greater solvability than ethanol Not to mention the special F1 fuel formulation in order to compensate the caloric power loss...
4.We are talking about solvability, which basically all of you confused with corosion. Please check Brittanica to edify you
5.There were at least 3 exceptional conditions that were occuring at almost the same time, which were nearly imposible to simulate in any particular lab condition
Could you please describe the "at least 3 exceptional" conditions?
I'm not challenging, genuinely curious.

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atanatizante
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Roostfactor wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:13 am
atanatizante wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:23 pm
If I were you guys, I would rather stop speculating on a particular field which is out of my expertise...

These are the following facts:

1.E10 represents only 10% of the total fuel mass
2.In order to compensate the loss of caloric power per kg brought by the ethanol they had to develop a new fuel which has more caloric power than last year, just to level the power output from 2021
3.Ordinary pump gasoline has many times fold greater solvability than ethanol Not to mention the special F1 fuel formulation in order to compensate the caloric power loss...
4.We are talking about solvability, which basically all of you confused with corosion. Please check Brittanica to edify you
5.There were at least 3 exceptional conditions that were occuring at almost the same time, which were nearly imposible to simulate in any particular lab condition
Could you please describe the "at least 3 exceptional" conditions?
I'm not challenging, genuinely curious.
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"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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vorticism wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:22 pm
etusch wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:52 am

If there were two different team to compare we could see if it was that bad or not.
The second issue was combustion system. We don't know what the engine could give if it work with pre chamber ignition system.
I think with a better combustion system 2016 pu were not be so much down compared to rivals.
There were three other teams to compare it to. All four would have benefited from an ideal combustion system.
Comparing Honda powered two different cars I mean. Many people says Honda was bad but we could see that power unit only with mclaren chassis and with another chassis I am sure it would perform better and people will look differently to honda engine.
By "better combustion system" I mean that there were two area which are shortcoming performance wise. And for both shortcoming area with the engine, people firstly blamed turbo. Then when they started to use bigger turbo. Then people only blamed combustion system ( maybe this is a bit logical ). If there were a better combustion system when they are using smaller turbo maybe you would not think that that turbo is that bad.
Last edited by etusch on Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

restless
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Fact is - they never went back to the initial "small" size, even after getting better ignition/combustion.
They know better, thus turbo was too small accoding to people who had all information.

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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restless wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:45 am
Fact is - they never went back to the initial "small" size, even after getting better ignition/combustion.
They know better, thus turbo was too small accoding to people who had all information.
If you're using a bypass system oversized turbo machinery is a must. You have an 80hp electric motor to take up any inertia.
Saishū kōnā

AR3-GP
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Any news of mapping upgrades on the Honda front? Or even MGU-K/ES upgrades in September?

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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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if it is out of budget cap Red Bull will give lots of money to have them developed more and Honda will continue eagerly since it is hybrid side

glenntws
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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MGU-K failure again, 100% sure. Ffs.

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etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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is mgu-k smells when failure? I think Carbon fiber body part or some fluid burnt.

velizare
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:43 am
is mgu-k smells when failure? I think Carbon fiber body part or some fluid burnt.
from the mchonda days i don't remember any fire-related incident.

glenntws
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:43 am
is mgu-k smells when failure? I think Carbon fiber body part or some fluid burnt.
The audio sounded to me like the MGU-K failed shortly before max turned off the engine.

Gasly also had the fluid leak at the MGU-K when it failed (maybe overheating is the problem?) which then started burning.

Pretty sure it's the same problem. Was Max still on a old MGU-K and did Perez get a new one? Or did they just not want to give hints on the radio... Maybe the new K for Max will have the problem resolved, I think he was still on the first one.

EDIT: Read somewhere that Gaslys failure was Battery related... Could also apply to Max, hence the immediately stopping MGU-K.