Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[godlameroso]

I heard they have made a nice step forward in power for next year, better than they anticipated, and that they are working to nail the reliability out of the gate and improve the overall weight and distribution of the power unit throughout the year. Or at least that's my reading between the lines so to speak.

Still no word on the final layout, I guess we won't know until we get a peek during testing. I'll take this as a good sign, when people are stumped they take breaks, refresh their minds, to try to get around the slump, gives them time to chit chat to draw inspiration from other places etc. When people have a clearly defined goals and understand the steps needed to reach them, they work, they don't have time to chat. At least that's how I work, when I'm busy on something I shut out the world and focus until I finish.

[PlatinumZealot]

I could of been given a fishy story but was told Honda doesn't use pre-chamber.To add that this year needed more tokens and time to do it.You just can't add pre-chamber and be equal or better than MB........you change the CC design then you must change almost everything else to get max benefit.So the new rules for 2017 was a gift from Heaven for Honda!!!

Expect a almost 90% new PU next year.Even the parts that they could use next year will most likely be changed to because they need to be lighter.Honda always had a problem of making their engines too heavy but as strong as a tank at first.

I don't think you can say this so easily because Honda always used to show off miniaturizing their parts in the NA days. They like to challenge themselves to go as small as possible in typical Japanese fashion. Never heard Mclaren complaining of engine weight in their first year with Honda, but we heard sauber and ferrari complaining about the weight of their first engines.

[Sasha]

I could of been given a fishy story but was told Honda doesn't use pre-chamber.To add that this year needed more tokens and time to do it.You just can't add pre-chamber and be equal or better than MB........you change the CC design then you must change almost everything else to get max benefit.So the new rules for 2017 was a gift from Heaven for Honda!!!

Expect a almost 90% new PU next year.Even the parts that they could use next year will most likely be changed to because they need to be lighter.Honda always had a problem of making their engines too heavy but as strong as a tank at first.

I don't think you can say this so easily because Honda always used to show off miniaturizing their parts in the NA days. They like to challenge themselves to go as small as possible in typical Japanese fashion. Never heard Mclaren complaining of engine weight in their first year with Honda, but we heard sauber and ferrari complaining about the weight of their first engines.

Read your history again. In the 80's and early 90's using iron blocks.(look up Honda's first Indy Engine)Honda always overdone it(never took it to the edge until they had too to compete) with their engines.

[Craigy]

Honda always overdone it(never took it to the edge until they had too to compete) with their engines.

The other problem that seems to have blighted Honda engines in the past was that they didn't pay as much attention to vibration as the other manufacturers.

[PlatinumZealot]

I could of been given a fishy story but was told Honda doesn't use pre-chamber.To add that this year needed more tokens and time to do it.You just can't add pre-chamber and be equal or better than MB........you change the CC design then you must change almost everything else to get max benefit.So the new rules for 2017 was a gift from Heaven for Honda!!!

Expect a almost 90% new PU next year.Even the parts that they could use next year will most likely be changed to because they need to be lighter.Honda always had a problem of making their engines too heavy but as strong as a tank at first.

I don't think you can say this so easily because Honda always used to show off miniaturizing their parts in the NA days. They like to challenge themselves to go as small as possible in typical Japanese fashion. Never heard Mclaren complaining of engine weight in their first year with Honda, but we heard sauber and ferrari complaining about the weight of their first engines.

Read your history again. In the 80's and early 90's using iron blocks.(look up Honda's first Indy Engine)Honda always overdone it(never took it to the edge until they had too to compete) with their engines.

History?! 80's and 90's are sooo far back in time for F1 development, almost like the bronze age in F1 - you just can't compare with today. Of course I am referring to the late 2000's with extremely high use of Computer aided Engineering. I can't speak for the 90's too far back.

[mclaren111]

F1i.com:

Honda 2017 power unit concept 'nearly finished'

"The concept is nearly finished," Hasegawa told F1i. "We have started engine testing on the dyno for 2017, so we will continue to improve performance through testing until very close to next season. We cannot go into any details at this point."

While the token system will be lifted - allowing a potential overhaul of the power unit concept - Hasegawa says much of this year's development will prove beneficial to next season's performance.

"Some of the development that we have put into effect in 2016, like weight reduction and reliability updates will always be useful in any situation. Though we cannot go into technology specifics for 2017, the overall power unit regulations will not change drastically, so many things we learned from 2016 can be used as fundamental technology and data for 2017."

And Hasegawa says the final two races will also allow Honda to improve on its knowledge ahead of next season, although no work is planned with 2017 in mind.

Much, much better situation than a year ago =D>

[Joseki]

So we have official confirmation of the 2017 PU being on the dynos, much earlier compared to the 2016 unit.

[godlameroso]

You can have the power unit on the dyno, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the final production turbo, and packaging is decided and signed off on. Although I'm sure by now that the layout has been decided, because to delay it for much more would hurt the chassis team.

It's 2017 or bust, they can no longer use the excuse of not having enough tokens, or enough preparation. The communication between McLaren and Honda is good, the lessons have been learned, the intellect and technical ability is there. I would be disappointed if they weren't at least the 4th fastest team by the start of the season and at least have the capacity to develop into the 3rd or 2nd fastest team some time in the year.

[mclaren111]

Can not agree more

[diffuser]

There is an eternity before March 2017.

[Roostfactor]

[quote There is an eternity before March 2017.[/quote]
So true, a sneek peak at the 2017 engine would be awesome!
Of course cant give any secrets away to the competition though.

[f1rules]

Totally agree! Im really hoping they can battle ferrari, who i expect to fall back a bit. It would be a huge motivator for the whole team not least Alonso. rb and merc im afraid is out of reach but to beat our old enemies Secondly because if mclaren wants to attract the best drivers they need to deliver. A Vettel could be up for grabbing. Sainz is delivering well also.

You can have the power unit on the dyno, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the final production turbo, and packaging is decided and signed off on. Although I'm sure by now that the layout has been decided, because to delay it for much more would hurt the chassis team.

It's 2017 or bust, they can no longer use the excuse of not having enough tokens, or enough preparation. The communication between McLaren and Honda is good, the lessons have been learned, the intellect and technical ability is there. I would be disappointed if they weren't at least the 4th fastest team by the start of the season and at least have the capacity to develop into the 3rd or 2nd fastest team some time in the year.

[godlameroso]

There is an eternity before March 2017.

They start testing in late February, and luckily there's only 28 days of that month. Plus we'll start seeing some new cars near the end of January.

[ALO_Power]

Totally agree! Im really hoping they can battle ferrari, who i expect to fall back a bit. It would be a huge motivator for the whole team not least Alonso. rb and merc im afraid is out of reach but to beat our old enemies Secondly because if mclaren wants to attract the best drivers they need to deliver. A Vettel could be up for grabbing. Sainz is delivering well also.

You can have the power unit on the dyno, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the final production turbo, and packaging is decided and signed off on. Although I'm sure by now that the layout has been decided, because to delay it for much more would hurt the chassis team.

It's 2017 or bust, they can no longer use the excuse of not having enough tokens, or enough preparation. The communication between McLaren and Honda is good, the lessons have been learned, the intellect and technical ability is there. I would be disappointed if they weren't at least the 4th fastest team by the start of the season and at least have the capacity to develop into the 3rd or 2nd fastest team some time in the year.

I expect more than that New regulations, don't forget that. The grid order next year won't be just progress from this year, probably completely different.

[Sasha]

Good news... MB stated they had hit the horsepower max for this engine formula.

From now on there will be very very little HP gain so most of the performance gains for them will come from the little things,like improving drivability and better ERS.