Is Mercedes sandbagging 2014?

[SectorOne]

To be fair the flat out era was a very small period of F1 history. But for me that era was what F1 was all about, damn near flat out every lap not carrying around fuel you won´t use for the next 40 laps etc.

Some of the current drivers today, like Gutierrez and Kvyat and those skinny guys i think would have massive problems coping in that era.
Arguably it could solve the problem we have with ridiculous physique´s to the point that people have to go to the hospital and stuff.

You still needed to be light but muscles was more important.

[dans79]

It's pretty much never been possible to go flat out for an entire race, in pretty much any racing series. Drivers have always had to manage the engine, or the tires, fuel load or some other arbitrary parameter.

[Edax]

It's pretty much never been possible to go flat out for an entire race, in pretty much any racing series. Drivers have always had to manage the engine, or the tires, fuel load or some other arbitrary parameter.

Very true. Even in Nascar which is one of the simplest forms of racing, tire management is what wins races.

I guess every driver of every era and racing series is continuously busy with the state of his car, tyres, engine, fuel load, brake temperatures etc, and acting on that (management).

But past drivers would simply adapt their driving style based on experience and (gut) feeling. 30 years back it would not make sense to ask the wall about the state of your tires, because they would have even less information than you, since the only relevant sensor was your butt.

Now the car is hooked up to so many sensors that this managing becomes more and more a conversation between the pit wall and the driver. That makes it visible, and sometimes annoyingly so.

It does in the parallel universe of Formula One where "racing" is no longer defined as "going as fast as possible for as long as possible" but rather as" managing a number of arbitrarily imposed external factors better than anyone else".

Actually I think it may be the other way around. Fangio had to manage the tires, brakes, fuel etc without a radio. A modern F1 driver has about a complete overseas technical team hooked up to his car via broadband connection.

The modern driver does not necessarely have to be worse on car management, but he sure has a lot more help on top of his natural skillset.

[Glyn]

It's pretty much never been possible to go flat out for an entire race, in pretty much any racing series. Drivers have always had to manage the engine, or the tires, fuel load or some other arbitrary parameter.

Very true. Even in Nascar which is one of the simplest forms of racing, tire management is what wins races.

I guess every driver of every era and racing series is continuously busy with the state of his car, tyres, engine, fuel load, brake temperatures etc, and acting on that (management).

But past drivers would simply adapt their driving style based on experience and (gut) feeling. 30 years back it would not make sense to ask the wall about the state of your tires, because they would have even less information than you, since the only relevant sensor was your butt.

Now the car is hooked up to so many sensors that this managing becomes more and more a conversation between the pit wall and the driver. That makes it visible, and sometimes annoyingly so.

It does in the parallel universe of Formula One where "racing" is no longer defined as "going as fast as possible for as long as possible" but rather as" managing a number of arbitrarily imposed external factors better than anyone else".

Actually I think it may be the other way around. Fangio had to manage the tires, brakes, fuel etc without a radio. A modern F1 driver has about a complete overseas technical team hooked up to his car via broadband connection.

The modern driver does not necessarely have to be worse on car management, but he sure has a lot more help on top of his natural skillset.

Would it ever be possible to create Formula 1, with the tyres and fuel pit-stops, engines etc.... where you can make every single lap, a qualifying lap?

Or even if you were able to push the car to the limit. Is there always going to be an advantage at some point for those who take the more caring approach. (Longer stints whatever)

Tortoise and the hare.

[turbof1]

Well, perhaps if you made extreme hard tyres, but then you still need to worry about heating them up.

That leaves the issue with fuel: having enough fuel on board to go flat out each lap, is slower over the race then underfueling a bit. The extra fuel you are carrying automatically slows you down.

So yes, the more caring approach always wins from the pure flat out approach. Some strategically periods of flat out during the race will certainly help you, but across a race it will give you a lot of trouble.

[mrluke]

You win by being just faster than everybody else. Not by lapping them all and breaking your car in the process. If you are a lap ahead of everybody the FIA will just change the rules anyway.

[MOWOG]

Somebody must have read The Tortoise And The Hare to you as a child, Turbo.


A lot!

Doesn't mean you're not right, of course. The only race that is flat out from start to finish is the 40 yard dash!

[turbof1]

Somebody must have read The Tortoise And The Hare to you as a child, Turbo.


A lot!

Doesn't mean you're not right, of course. The only race that is flat out from start to finish is the 40 yard dash!

I truly never heard of it . It's common sense really.

[MOWOG]

Never heard of it? Man, you were never exposed to the classics as a child, were you?



You can get it at Amazon.com. Fascinating reading.

And as you said, just common sense!

[CBeck113]

Even with the good arguments agaist the fact I'm sticking to my initial statement that they are at least two seconds faster than the rest of the field.

Why?, Well, I'll tell you: Singapur was probably the worst track for Mercedes to exploit their advantage: their MGU-H. Also, if the timing was at least close for the driver comments, then Vettel was going all-out behind Lweis, at least for the first couple of laps (it was relatively loud in the backround...as loud as it gets nowadays )
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 26092.html

And, on top of that, Lewis's tires held almost as long as Seb's, although Lewis was 2,5s faster... After Seb started to maintain his tires, the gap also stopped growing so extremely - Lewis also started to make sure he had enough laps left for the strategy to pay off, since he knew he would have to pass at least one car after the stop.

Bottom line (aka my opinion): That was a controlled sprint, which was also only full for the first few laps to gage their advantage.

[FoxHound]

The tyre compound difference still needs to be factored in.

[CHT]

If Merc is sandbagging, they will be doing it for next season not 2014 because they know that the championship is over

[SectorOne]

Say what again?

[CBeck113]

If Merc is sandbagging, they will be doing it for next season not 2014 because they know that the championship is over

Exactly my point - Mercedes didn't invest all that money for a single championship.

[xpensive]

If Merc is sandbagging, they will be doing it for next season not 2014 because they know that the championship is over

Exactly my point - Mercedes didn't invest all that money for a single championship.

In all honesty, I fail miserably to understand either of these statements?