MotoGP 2015

[bdr529]

I expected some of those responses, No opposition, machine or competitor, I get that argument, but I also understand that's not the riders doing. Rossi didn't have the hardest competition in some of his championships, and If you look at someone like Doohan, not till Lawson, Rainey and a busted up Schwantz left the sport that he started to win the title.

yesterday I nominated Mike Hailwood and Kenny Roberts
(then deleted the post as undignified and unproductive, a statement of the obvious)

I'd have no issues with someone saying Roberts, but I think the level of competition was so great during the late 70's to the early 90's that each rider took away from the others, that picking one rider is near impossible , Sheene, Roberts, Spencer, Lawson, Rainey, Schwantz. and throw in Mamola as the Joker. and then who do who go with Roberts, Lawson, or Rainny

Lastly I can't forget that Ago raced the 2 class at the same time, As a former bike racer I can tell you that's not the easiest feat to do, no matter the level of machinery or competition faced. You make a mistake, You go down.

[bdr529]

I should clarify, "My completely biased opinion", the greatest ever is Freddie Spencer
but I'm open to debate on who the real GOAT is, As my office cabinet shows I'v liked a few riders over the years,
I also have a Spencer Rothmans colours, Roberts, and Joey Dunlop helmets hanging in the garage


The helmets are Spencer Lawson and 2x Schwantz, the models are Spencer's 1983,1985 and Rossi 2005 and Stoner 2006

[Andres125sx]

Will the Honda boys 'run interference' - on effective behalf of George - to prevent the "bad penny" Rossi - taking it?

Sure, Marquez will do all he can to help Lorenzo...

Where have you been past two seasons?

Lorenzo and Marquez can´t cope with each other, even the King of Spain forced them to shake their hands in an effort to calm them down

Also, Rossi was Marquez´s idol before joining MotoGP. He said it publicly several times.


Pedrosa-Lorenzo relationship has never been a special one either...



About the GOAT debate, I´ve never wasted a minute trying to compare drivers from different eras. Not in F1 and neither in MotoGP. Different eras can´t be compared. I never say the best of all times, I always say one of the best of all times, even when refering to Alonso when he´s the best of all times (just kidding)

If I´d be forced to say a name, I´d say Rossi. Even Agostini reached all his titles in a short period, with best bike what could be considered a winning streak (please don´t take this literally). Rossi is winning titles for decades, with different brands (Aprilia, Honda, Yamaha), and even with different engines (2 and 4 strokes). 18 seasons after his first title, he´s still fighting for a new one. To me that counts.

[J.A.W.]

I expected some of those responses, No opposition, machine or competitor, I get that argument, but I also understand that's not the riders doing. Rossi didn't have the hardest competition in some of his championships, and If you look at someone like Doohan, not till Lawson, Rainey and a busted up Schwantz left the sport that he started to win the title.

Actually, if do look at Doohan, he was on his way to the title in `92 - against Rainey & Schwantz et al..
when he suffered a season ending major leg injury.. & rode the next year with a non-union fracture too,
so badly affected - he was unable even to operate the rear brake, & cleverly improvised a thumb control to substitute..

He had guts, as well as ability to persevere when his Honda wasn't so good & come back & dominate when it was..

Honda hasn't forgiven Rossi, & although they don't run team orders between their riders, I would not be
surprised if perhaps a little tricky stuff does pan-out vs the factory Yamaha team.. guess we'll see..

[bdr529]

I expected some of those responses, No opposition, machine or competitor, I get that argument, but I also understand that's not the riders doing. Rossi didn't have the hardest competition in some of his championships, and If you look at someone like Doohan, not till Lawson, Rainey and a busted up Schwantz left the sport that he started to win the title.

Actually, if do look at Doohan, he was on his way to the title in `92 - against Rainey & Schwantz et al..
when he suffered a season ending major leg injury.. & rode the next year with a non-union fracture too,
so badly affected - he was unable even to operate the rear brake, & cleverly improvised a thumb control to substitute..

like I said he didn't win it till they were gone,
But yes he did have a healthy lead up till his accident, but I also recall Rainey starting the season injured and then missing another couple of races again to injury.
some what similar to Rainey in 1993, he was lead the champ. albeit by a slim margine with 3 races to go, but he was leading the race when he had his accident.

But this just furthers my point about competing in 2 class at the same time, if you crash in the first race of the day, then there's a very good chance that you miss the next one that day

[J.A.W.]

like I said he didn't win it till they were gone.

& in `92 Doohan didn't lose it 'til he was gone.. obviously..

If you want to get into a pole/lap record/besting team-mate countback, fine..

But also recall that Honad ran Michelin then too, & Rainey's Dunlops gave him a jack-rabbit start advantage too..

I seriously doubt that any current Moto GP championship contender would want to bother..
.. with the lame same-same & anodyne Moto 2 - generic Honda 600/4 race, these dayss, anyhow..

[bdr529]

I seriously doubt that any current Moto GP championship contender would want to bother..
.. with the lame same-same & anodyne Moto 2 - generic Honda 600/4 race, these dayss, anyhow..

what excuse do you use to explain nobody attempting to to the double between 85 & 2001, the bikes weren't "anodyne" at that time

I'll say it again, competing in both classes at the same time is difficult because of the risk of crashing and injuries suffered in one class will effect your performance in the other class as well
And having a discussion on Doohan and Rainey both loosing out on a title well leading the championship at the time of their accidents. Doohan in practice, Rainey during the race
Just show once again that winning two class in the same year, let alone 1 class, is a difficult thing to do regardless of the level of bike and rider your competing against, You can take yourself out of contention all on your own and at anytime,
I speak from experience on that

[J.A.W.]

Freddie Spencer has been on record explaining the issues as a rider ( the last) to successfully ride more than 1 class
at the top level. It wasn't a breeze, for sure - organisationally, physically, & mentally..

Contracts between rider & factory machine provider/sponsor likely precludes such a prospect these days too.

Likewise, prizemoney for race wins is a much less significant component - compared to standard contract/sponsor funding.

I acknowledge your anecdotal/experiential input, & empathise from like personal experience..
Its a bit hard to ride or even load up a bike, having received serious injuries.

[Tommy Cookers]

.......winning two class in the same year, let alone 1 class, is a difficult thing to do regardless of the level of bike and rider your competing against ......

btw - iirc
Mike Hailwood won the 250cc and 350cc championships in 66 and 67
against superior (machine) opposition eg Read and Ivy on 250 Yamahas and Agostini on the 350 MV
and rode the 500cc class to help Redman's attempts win that championship
that's 3 classes
H then successfully raced cars, and later returned to bikes eg winning TTs

Kenny Roberts won AMA titles in part by also being a demon flat-track rider
going to the GP world title KR surely had inferior machines (piston-ported reed valve jobs) and little experience, but was invincible

(btw Paul Smart in 70 won the AMA from only asphalt racing but had the title withheld, having no $3 AMA licence)

[J.A.W.]

[/quote]Mike Hailwood then successfully raced cars, and later returned to bikes eg winning TTs

Kenny Roberts won AMA titles in part by also being a demon flat-track rider
(though Paul Smart in 70 won the most AMA points by asphalt racing alone but had the title withheld, having no $3 AMA licence)
then in the GP world title KR surely had inferior machines (piston-ported reed valve jobs) and little experience, but was invincible[/quote]

Actually T-C, Kenny R - won his AMA No1 plate titles in the mid `70s, when both dirt & road racing counted..
..his Yamaha factory racing TZ 750 gave him the advantage on tar-seal, but his XS 750 handicapped him dirt-wise..

That's why his racing manager ( & former World Champ) Aussie Kel C, put him on a TZ 750 dirt-miler too..

After that, racing a G.P. 500, - in the FIM World Champs - wasn't really so tough..


& about Mike Hailwood.. he was a natural, he came back with nothing to prove, & no need, other than his own
interest.. a true great, ageless - IMO - like Fangio in F1..

[bdr529]

Mike Hailwood won the 250cc and 350cc championships in 66 and 67
against superior (machine) opposition eg Read and Ivy on 250 Yamahas and Agostini on the 350 MV
and rode the 500cc class to help Redman's attempts win that championship
that's 3 classes
H then successfully raced cars, and later returned to bikes eg winning TTs

I must be getting really old I had to look up "iirc"
I hadn't forgotten Hailwood's achievements had the poster on the bedroom wall,


There where a few riders back in the old days that raced multiple classes much like in F1 & F2, But as JAW pointed out, big money and contracts have put an end to that, sad, but that's how it is.

I will always favor riders/drivers that race in other classes or other disciplines , guys like Surees, Ago, Spenser, Cecotto raced F1, 24h, Touring car. Even Eddie Lawson did a couple of years in Indy Lite's and some Indy car back in the 90's.
Jeff Ward (motocross) raced in Indycar, and won at Texas Speedway, you couldn't find a more opposite to winning a Supercross race.
Wayne Gardner had a go in Australian Touring Cars, and now Rossi competing in some rally racing here & there is nice to see.

I'm sure there's are a lot more guys, enough to have a topic on just that

[SectorOne]

Scarbs twitter, nice shot of the winglets on the Yamaha.

[Andres125sx]

Did they use it for qualifying?

Didn´t know Yamaha is testing winglets too. I can´t understand how fixed winglets can be any useful on a bike, but I learnt a long time ago aerodynamics are anything but instinctive quite often.

I guess active aero/parts are banned, as if legal it could be the start of downforce use in bike world

[Andres125sx]

Lorenzo on pole, and that´s after Rossi made him loose two tenths in last sector. Rossi apologized.

Even when I´m spanish, I´d prefer Rossi winning this championship as some sort of tribute to his career, he deserve another one, ten titles sound better than nine , but IMO it will be fifth for Lorenzo easily

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Biggggg F*** up from Yamaha !!!!!

I did not understand why MM let Rossi through before their second PIT. It enabled Rossi go ahead and overtake Lorenzo. MM and Rossi, hand in glove.