Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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godlameroso
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Brian Coat wrote:Godlameroso wrote:" ... you're not allowed to use any exotic materials either ..."

That is not what the rulebook says. It does not say "any".

For example, if we were considering a piston crown / top land insert material, we could choose from a multitude of Nickel Superalloys ... they are not prohibited.

The current rule book is daft on some things. You can't have the Ti fasteners you'd find on Johhny-go-faster's road bike but you can use exotic alloy fasteners which are "n" times more expensive!
You're right of course.

5.16 Materials and construction – General :
5.16.1 Unless explicitly permitted for a specific application, the following materials may not be used anywhere on the power unit :
a) Magnesium based alloys.
b) Metal Matrix Composites (MMC’s).
c) Intermetallic materials.
d) Alloys containing more than 5% by weight of Iridium or Rhenium.
e) Copper based alloys containing more than 2.75% Beryllium.
f) Any other alloy class containing more than 0.25% Beryllium.
g) Tungsten base alloys.
h) Ceramics and ceramic matrix composites.
5.16.2 The restrictions in Article 5.16.1 do not apply to coatings provided the total coating thickness does not exceed 25% of the section thickness of the underlying base material in all axes. In all cases, other than under Article 5.16.3(b), the relevant coating must not exceed 0.8mm.
2016 F1 Technical Regulations 28/90 27 February 2016
© 2016 Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile
5.16.3 The restrictions in Article 5.16.1(h) do not apply to the following applications :
a) Any component whose primary purpose is for electrical or thermal insulation.
b) Any coating whose primary purpose is for thermal insulation of the outside of the exhaust system.

5.16.2 and 5.16.3 gives you HUUUGE leeway because you can Brian Coat everything you want or need.

The main objective of the regulations is to force the manufacturers to make aluminum based blocks like they have in road cars. So even though the manufacturing and materials used in these blocks are wildly different than road car engines. What they learn can be transferred to making new engines.

Just having engines that can run at hotter temperatures reliably is worth it, improving efficiency reduces production costs. Passenger car engines waste ~30% of the fuel energy through cooling.
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FW17
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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What is Mario Illian taking care of in the Renault project? Will any of his works involve token spends?

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gandharva
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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FW17 wrote:What is Mario Illian taking care of in the Renault project? Will any of his works involve token spends?
Combustion engine (mainly cylinder head/injection), testbeds and analyzing/simulation. His cylinder concept from 2014 (funded by RBR) will also be used, or is already in use, and I think most likely he also works on the new combustion engine for 2017.

Illmore is not working on energy recovery. Thats Renault/Infinity and AVLs business.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 44964.html

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FW17
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Thx

Some time back there was news that TJI was yet to be deployed by Renault as they were nit equipped to study the same.

What is the current speculation on the same.

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godlameroso
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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They introduced their own version in Monaco didn't they?
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djos
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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godlameroso wrote:They introduced their own version in Monaco didn't they?
I'm pretty sure they said they weren't doing it till the next major engine upgrade.
"In downforce we trust"

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gandharva
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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godlameroso wrote:They introduced their own version in Monaco didn't they?
Taffin: "It's a first step into that direction."

We will probably never know what exactly this means, but I think it's more or less granted that Renault will have their own proper TJI (or whatever they call it) implementation by the start of 2017.

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godlameroso
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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There are many tricks to create more complete combustion at leaner and leaner levels, it's very complicated because some things might not work until you do something else different, so it seems like a dead end. Say for example your prechamber has some effect, but it's not as big an improvement as you were hoping, but then you change the timing, and you see a big change. Or if you add a little bit more air here or take away air there you also see a big change. Or if you play with temperature and pressure of the fuel, you see that it has no influence, unless you use a different spray pattern. It's not always obvious what combination will make what technique work, here is where experience, and ingenuity come into play. And why combustion CFD is starting to have such a big importance in the design of these power units.

Or you run at such lean levels that you'll tolerate a certain amount of detonation to maintain a target temperature, otherwise the engine may get too cool? But that's just one of my hare brained schemes.
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ReoPTy
ReoPTy
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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gandharva wrote:
FW17 wrote:What is Mario Illian taking care of in the Renault project? Will any of his works involve token spends?
Combustion engine (mainly cylinder head/injection), testbeds and analyzing/simulation. His cylinder concept from 2014 (funded by RBR) will also be used, or is already in use, and I think most likely he also works on the new combustion engine for 2017.

Illmore is not working on energy recovery. Thats Renault/Infinity and AVLs business.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 44964.html
http://www.f1i.com/magazine/magazine-fe ... -retard/3/


taffin confirming ain't any illmor input into renault ICE, renault use illmor mainly as test bed, 20 %

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gandharva
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Please stop spreading nonsense! Your article is outdated. Mario Ilien signed a contract with Renault 3 months AFTER your article was written.

ReoPTy
ReoPTy
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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gandharva wrote:Please stop spreading nonsense! Your article is outdated. Mario Ilien signed a contract with Renault 3 months AFTER your article was written.
curious exchange, you claim illien taking of any design into renault ICE , its false !

Illien is used as AVL with a new contract as test bench for Viry, not ever any input design from illmor as you claim.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 40702.html

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godlameroso
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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This article you posted says that Illmor is working directly with Renault, and that Red Bull has no technical input into the process.
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gandharva
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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ReoPTy wrote:
gandharva wrote:Please stop spreading nonsense! Your article is outdated. Mario Ilien signed a contract with Renault 3 months AFTER your article was written.
curious exchange, you claim illien taking of any design into renault ICE , its false !

Illien is used as AVL with a new contract as test bench for Viry, not ever any input design from illmor as you claim.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 40702.html
Thank you for linking an article that prooves yourself wrong. =D>

The article says:
- RBR introduced Illien to Renault
- Ilmore now has a contract and an option for a multi year deal with Renault that is reviewed on annual basis
- Ilmore adds 20% capacity on top of Renault (development/analysis/simulation)
- Illien himself is actively working to eliminate all weaknesses (ICE as we all know) of Renault PU
Last edited by gandharva on 08 Aug 2016, 16:35, edited 1 time in total.

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djos
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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gandharva wrote: Thank you for linking an article that proves yourself wrong. =D>
It's what he does, it's how he got a negative rating in the 20's.
"In downforce we trust"

3jawchuck
3jawchuck
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

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Everyone keeps saying Ilmor, but I thought it was just Mario Illien?