Horsepower of the engines.

[OO7]

Apparently Andy Cowell of Mercedes Benz HPP said that the current Merc 'ICE' has a power output equal to the V8 of the previous engine generation and that coupled with the Hybrid systems the power output is in the V10 range!

[PlatinumZealot]

Link?

[hurril]

Apparently Andy Cowell of Mercedes Benz HPP said that the current Merc 'ICE' has a power output equal to the V8 of the previous engine generation and that coupled with the Hybrid systems the power output is in the V10 range!

How are they getting numbers like that? There's a formula floating around here for computing power form fuel consumption and efficiency; unless its [the formula] is wrong - that puts the efficiency number up in the absurd range. What's going on here guys?

[PlatinumZealot]

Yes, same as last season.

The water cooled matrix is believed to be on the engine coolant circuit so you get cooling down towards (not to) T_eng_coolant without the need for another radiator in the side pod. Then the air-air cooler takes the pre-cooled air and cools it down towards (not to) T_pod_inlet. The result is full charge cooling with minimised aero drag burden. Andy Green (FI TD) told RET it adds 3-5 kg cf. air-air. He said they'd like to use it but can't justify the weight offset cost.

Merc can presumably afford to 'buy' weight offsets at "J*DI" per kg.

That is a clever layout.

The water from the cold side of the engine radiator is pretty cold in relative terms... just mildy warm. It definitely goes a long way in reducing the size of the air cooler as the cooling load is shared between the engine radiator and the dedicated air part of the inter-cooler. It should be more efficient packaging wise as the intercooler is piggy backing the main water circuit no additional, dedicated water circulation system is needed.

[Facts Only]

Apparently Andy Cowell of Mercedes Benz HPP said that the current Merc 'ICE' has a power output equal to the V8 of the previous engine generation and that coupled with the Hybrid systems the power output is in the V10 range!

How are they getting numbers like that? There's a formula floating around here for computing power form fuel consumption and efficiency; unless its [the formula] is wrong - that puts the efficiency number up in the absurd range. What's going on here guys?

Years of hard work

[R_Redding]

Apparently Andy Cowell of Mercedes Benz HPP said that the current Merc 'ICE' has a power output equal to the V8 of the previous engine generation and that coupled with the Hybrid systems the power output is in the V10 range!

Link?

It was mentioned by Ben Edwards in the BBCs FP1 coverage 26min21sec , the Merc/Petronas briefing where Cowell spoke had taken place a few hrs earlier.

He also added a few other tidbits ...

that the v10 had been consuming 190kgs/hr

when Cowell was asked if the development rate had slowed... He said there development groups were still coming up with great ideas and pushing.

Rob

[OO7]

Thanks for that R_Redding.

My information came from David Croft on Sky F1, but the info is the same because as you mentioned it was from a media briefing. I'll check the iPlayer broadcast also.

[FoxHound]

Cmon guys,

The link is but a google search and click away....

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/11/f ... gine-boss/

“If you look at the total power that we’ve got today and compare it with the V10, and the last few races of the V10 era, we have more power than we had at the end of the V10 era. If you look at the fuel flow rate of the V10 era, it was over 190kgs an hour, 194kgs an hour, and today we’re at 100kgs an hour. [It’s] the same power, [with] about half the fuel flow rate, which is a phenomenal change in terms of efficiency of the power unit, as we now call it.
[It’s been] incredible improvements of efficiency, incredible absolute power levels from this this little, diminutive 1.6 litre internal combustion engine – it’s kicking out an awful lot of power.
That’s been done with great combustion technology, fuel injectors, turbo charger development, all the electrical system development – electrical machines to allow the waste energy flow from the exhaust system to be utilised rather than just blown done the exhaust system – and working very closely on all the fine details.

To be matching the V10 era, where there some restrictions right at the end on how long they had to last, but compared to that it’s phenomenal durability requirements now with, with uncomfortable grid penalties if you’re out to win a championship. I think this is the most powerful power unit that we can produce.
“It starts with the combustion process, it starts with that initial release, but then it’s what else can you recover from the system and use the turbine to recover what’s going down the exhaust pipe.
“[It’s] how efficient you make the compressor so the power doesn’t drop, how efficient you make the MGU-H so the energy that that recovers is not squandered, how low friction can you make the V6 and all the all the ancillaries so that you’re not squandering all the power than has been created it. It’s many, many systems that are being developed.

[Just_a_fan]

electrical machines to allow the waste energy flow from the exhaust system to be utilised rather than just blown done the exhaust system – and working very closely on all the fine details.

That's one of the things that annoys me about the "they're not loud enough" brigade. A total lack of understanding as to why they're "quiet" and what that actually represents as a feat of engineering. To run a small engine with a low fuel rate and produce such prodigious performance from the system is a testament to the designers' skills.

[wuzak]

electrical machines to allow the waste energy flow from the exhaust system to be utilised rather than just blown done the exhaust system – and working very closely on all the fine details.

That's one of the things that annoys me about the "they're not loud enough" brigade. A total lack of understanding as to why they're "quiet" and what that actually represents as a feat of engineering. To run a small engine with a low fuel rate and produce such prodigious performance from the system is a testament to the designers' skills.

Cowell says that the wastegate going into the main exhaust pipe changeds the sound quality:

"At the moment we've got the main tailpipe coming out of the rear of the turbine, and the wastegate tees into that, so there's just one pipe coming out of the back.

"That tee piece acts as a dead-end on the main tailpipes - a side branch resonator, which will affect the frequency of the sound in the main tailpipe.

"Taking that out will clean up the quality of the sound, and improve the volume of the main tailpipe as well."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122010

[PlatinumZealot]

Cowell is he talking about peak or hp or over the map. The cars certainly look slower than v10s even on the fast tracks like monza.

We all now the v8 were 750 hp.. Plus KERS = 830 hp.
Add 10% more onto it and you get 913 hp give or take 10hp right. That means we are in v10 territory now....

Certainly doesn't look like it!

With that said, the ice must be super dooper effocient (diamond like coatings are legal?) or its hopped up on some sort of "super fuel" woth an astoundingly high combustion efficiency to match. If you subtract the 160 for the mguk.. That brings you back to the same 750hp for the V6 ICE!

Amazing. Never expected this much. He is losing less energy to heat and friction. Mirror coating on the cylinders to reflect the heat inwards.

[bergie88]

Cowell is he talking about peak or hp or over the map. The cars certainly look slower than v10s even on the fast tracks like monza.

We all now the v8 were 750 hp.. Plus KERS = 830 hp.
Add 10% more onto it and you get 913 hp give or take 10hp right. That means we are in v10 territory now....

Certainly doesn't look like it!

With that said, the ice must be super dooper effocient (diamond like coatings are legal?) or its hopped up on some sort of "super fuel" woth an astoundingly high combustion efficiency to match. If you subtract the 160 for the mguk.. That brings you back to the same 750hp for the V6 ICE!

Amazing. Never expected this much. He is losing less energy to heat and friction. Mirror coating on the cylinders to reflect the heat inwards.

I think Cowell talks about the V8 without KERS (750 hp) plus the peak power from the MGU-K nowadays (160 hp). This makes makes it 910 hp in total, which is in the same range as in the V10 era, wow!

I do get the fact that people are complaining about the noise, the V10's/V8's were really screaming which was a great experience. On the other side, these power units (in combination with the fuels) are a true piece of engineering art. The efficiency numbers we, at this forum, assumed to be realistic are (way) too low. Moreover, this engine formula is active now for only two years now and is far from being completely developed, so who knows what the future will bring us.

Well, hopefully at least some more sound next year...

[mrluke]

Here comes 3 pages of posts explaining why Cowell cannot possibly be right and is just lying.

The same as every time a team or manufacturer discusses how much power is available.

[bhall II]

Here comes 3 pages of posts explaining why Cowell cannot possibly be right and is just lying.

The smarter ones might be inclined to note that eclipsing the power output of engines that were last developed 10 years ago is hardly something to make a big fuss over.

[Cold Fussion]

I do get the fact that people are complaining about the noise, the V10's/V8's were really screaming which was a great experience.

I personally think the V8's sucked, the noise they made was just a painful shrieking noise.