Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mattchu wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:48 pm
Juzh wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:09 pm
Why? It's their default quali mode with highest power.

On push laps during the race they use strat 5.
From what I gather they cannot change from strat 2 to strat 5 at any point! They can only use a different mode/level when certain criterea apply as mentioned above.
Strat 2 and strat 5 are likely for different recovery/deployment modes, not ICE mixture changes.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Jury is still out on the Mercedes ICE.
Again I posted some information from Sunoco'a race fuels website as a reference and their most potent unleades fuel is basically E10.

If there is a big jump by Ferrari, it's not becauae Mercedes don't know how to tune wirh E10, it's the because Ferrari made huge improvements in the design of their ICE.
Mercedes also made improvement on their ICE.

Just gotta wait till Monza.
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saviour stivala
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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All four engine manufacturers made improvements/improved their 2022 engines. With some managing to do more than others and some less than others.

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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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The mandated use of one engine mode for a race weekend. At the time the FIA also stated that ‘’ The restrictions implemented regarding the ICE modes, which is defined as (a set of control parameters which determine the output power of the ICE and the way it operates) not linked to changes of climatic conditions or to power unit protection that may be exceptionally triggered. In addition to this, all engines that own the same supplier must be used in the same mode on a specific weekend’’. Provisions are made for engines of one make which might have different mileage.

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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Juzh wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:02 pm
Since ban on quali specific maps was introduced changing between various strat modes only really affects energy deployment and wastegate on/off durations. Strat 2 will use up all available energy in 1 lap for example, strat 5 usually in 2 laps, but this is track specific. In baku with a lot of longs straights even strat5 could be programmed to deplete everything in 1 lap.
From Hamilton's radio transcripts last year I read that Mercedes mid season power increase coincided with their first usage of strat 4 in Hungary, that seems to imply it's still an ICE mode like it was before

If it's just a deployment mode then what would they use to turn the engine high or low during a weekend? Like between practice sessions

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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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wowgr8 wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 11:25 pm
Juzh wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:02 pm
Since ban on quali specific maps was introduced changing between various strat modes only really affects energy deployment and wastegate on/off durations. Strat 2 will use up all available energy in 1 lap for example, strat 5 usually in 2 laps, but this is track specific. In baku with a lot of longs straights even strat5 could be programmed to deplete everything in 1 lap.
From Hamilton's radio transcripts last year I read that Mercedes mid season power increase coincided with their first usage of strat 4 in Hungary, that seems to imply it's still an ICE mode like it was before

If it's just a deployment mode then what would they use to turn the engine high or low during a weekend? Like between practice sessions
Strat 4 doesn't mean anything by itself. It can be programmed to be any mode desirable and as I said those modes are very track specific. Hungary has a very high amount of braking so a lot of energy recovery is available during the lap, it's possible this enabled mercedes to use strat 4 for a few laps, but this would put next to no extra stress on the ICE itself. It's literally just a few extra seconds of energy deployment.
On the last lap of abu dhabi 2021 hamilton used strat 5 + overtake if needed, despite there being only a single lap left in the race with everything on the line.
wowgr8 wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 11:25 pm
If it's just a deployment mode then what would they use to turn the engine high or low during a weekend? Like between practice sessions
Engine maps are locked from Q1. So whatever you go into Q1 with you're stuck with for the entire qualifying and the race. For practice sessions you can cruise around all you want.

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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Any speed trap data for FP2?

Presumably the ‘dog of an engine’ is no longer looking so bad now they are starting to get better aero.

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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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djones wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 8:37 am
Any speed trap data for FP2?

Presumably the ‘dog of an engine’ is no longer looking so bad now they are starting to get better aero.
RUS: 333kmh
LEC: 334kmh
PER: 336kmh (same as VER in FP1)

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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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djones wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 8:37 am
Any speed trap data for FP2?

Presumably the ‘dog of an engine’ is no longer looking so bad now they are starting to get better aero.
Qualifying Team Average Speed Trap (FIA):

RBR: 334.5kmh
MER: 326.0kmh
FEZ: 324.8kmh

Mix that with what looks to be a clear lack of downforce comparatively to RBR and Ferrari, the fact McLaren are the slowest on the grid here with Aston also bottom half and this trend looks very much the same since the start of the season... You start to run out of good arguments against the fact they must be a little down on power at the moment.

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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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djones wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 8:37 am
Any speed trap data for FP2?

Presumably the ‘dog of an engine’ is no longer looking so bad now they are starting to get better aero.
This aged like a chocolate fish in the Miami heat.

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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 7:42 am
djones wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 8:37 am
Any speed trap data for FP2?

Presumably the ‘dog of an engine’ is no longer looking so bad now they are starting to get better aero.
Qualifying Team Average Speed Trap (FIA):

RBR: 334.5kmh
MER: 326.0kmh
FEZ: 324.8kmh

Mix that with what looks to be a clear lack of downforce comparatively to RBR and Ferrari, the fact McLaren are the slowest on the grid here with Aston also bottom half and this trend looks very much the same since the start of the season... You start to run out of good arguments against the fact they must be a little down on power at the moment.
Where is the clear lack of downforce? Merc's Friday pace was genuine. In a piece I read today, Russell's fuel and PU-mode corrected race sims on Friday had him 0.2s off of LEC.

Aren't Mercedes still the fastest in slow corners (according to Lando Norris)? They would also be inconsistent with a "clear lack of downforce."

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E10 fuel is being used for the first time this season. It meant that the fuel suppliers, together with the teams' engine departments, had to work hard last winter to make the transition smooth. Renstallen initially feared that some twenty horsepower would be lost with the introduction of the new fuel, but in the end the performance turned out to be the same as last season.

This is acknowledged by Andrea Dolfi, Petronas' top executive:
"If you ask me whether the percentage of ethanol determines performance, I say no. Ten percent didn't pose any particular problems."

When the Gazzetta sports newspaper then asks whether Mercedes' problems are exclusively related to the porpoising phenomenon, or whether there are also issues with the engine, Dolfi replies: "I can only say that all the objectives we had set for the engine have been met."

https://www.gazzetta.it/Formula-1/09-05 ... onas.shtml

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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 7:42 am
djones wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 8:37 am
Any speed trap data for FP2?

Presumably the ‘dog of an engine’ is no longer looking so bad now they are starting to get better aero.
Qualifying Team Average Speed Trap (FIA):

RBR: 334.5kmh
MER: 326.0kmh
FEZ: 324.8kmh

Mix that with what looks to be a clear lack of downforce comparatively to RBR and Ferrari, the fact McLaren are the slowest on the grid here with Aston also bottom half and this trend looks very much the same since the start of the season... You start to run out of good arguments against the fact they must be a little down on power at the moment.
That's just cherry picking.
The car passed an alpine and an alpha tauri, no complaints from the drivers about power.

The ground effect cars make finding the engine pecking order even more difficult so best to make a hypothesis of which track you think would give you a good reading and why.
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 4:26 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 7:42 am
djones wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 8:37 am
Any speed trap data for FP2?

Presumably the ‘dog of an engine’ is no longer looking so bad now they are starting to get better aero.
Qualifying Team Average Speed Trap (FIA):

RBR: 334.5kmh
MER: 326.0kmh
FEZ: 324.8kmh

Mix that with what looks to be a clear lack of downforce comparatively to RBR and Ferrari, the fact McLaren are the slowest on the grid here with Aston also bottom half and this trend looks very much the same since the start of the season... You start to run out of good arguments against the fact they must be a little down on power at the moment.
That's just cherry picking.
The car passed an alpine and an alpha tauri, no complaints from the drivers about power.

The ground effect cars make finding the engine pecking order even more difficult so best to make a hypothesis of which track you think would give you a good reading and why.
RB also overtake Ferrari despite possibly having 10-20hp less.

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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 4:26 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 7:42 am
djones wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 8:37 am
Any speed trap data for FP2?

Presumably the ‘dog of an engine’ is no longer looking so bad now they are starting to get better aero.
Qualifying Team Average Speed Trap (FIA):

RBR: 334.5kmh
MER: 326.0kmh
FEZ: 324.8kmh

Mix that with what looks to be a clear lack of downforce comparatively to RBR and Ferrari, the fact McLaren are the slowest on the grid here with Aston also bottom half and this trend looks very much the same since the start of the season... You start to run out of good arguments against the fact they must be a little down on power at the moment.
That's just cherry picking.
The car passed an alpine and an alpha tauri, no complaints from the drivers about power.

The ground effect cars make finding the engine pecking order even more difficult so best to make a hypothesis of which track you think would give you a good reading and why.
Cherry picking?

Ok, the averages I posted were from Miami but they were mentioned because that was the most recent race. Far from cherry picking. I'm not skewing anything either.

But I'm a bit perplexed.. there's a very obvious pattern emerging here. They, as a manufacturer, are globally down and have been for all 5 rounds which have also been different styles of tracks. This isn't a shot, it's just commentary on something that's pretty obvious. Most respected media outlets have put articles out about it, Toto initially mentioned in Bahrain he "wasn't sure how much they were losing on the engine side", he's now dropped back to a company morale line of "there will be no internal finger pointing, and we are 8 time world champs.. etc etc" (translation, both engine and chassis are lacking a bit, so we'll keep it an internal discussion, not a media stood witch hunt), Lando Norris has been critical of the engine this year saying it isn't helping at the moment, but he thinks it's reliable so that's good.
Let's talk FIA Qualifying speed traps.. (as these are generally set with no tow, no traffic, all DRS enabled). Below is the average speed of every driver combined into a manufacturer representation for every round. It doesn't include weird outliers who are 40kph down or those who didn't qualify. It also includes a Mercedes without McLaren option as a few people are blaming McLaren for poor averages... in reality, McLaren even with their issues only lowers the average in Australia.

Image

And while I realise this is only one snapshot.. it's fairly a damning one when the lack of top speed and time to V-Max can't be traded for outright laptime (see Ferrari). And this also takes onboard Williams who are punching above their weight a lot at several tracks with their low downforce configurations and honestly, the situation sort of looks to be improving in the later races, but I think the low DF Williams and Merc's lower drag upgrades helped at Miami. Again this is merely a conversation point. I'm only responding to some pretty loaded comments I got for literally harmlessly mentioning "they seem a little down on power at the moment"