Silly Season 2016/2017

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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Vasconia
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Schuttelberg wrote:
What are you saying mate? Kimi had the exact same strategy as Sebastian and it would take a monumental explanation to make me understand how Raikkonen didn't finish 3rd. Ferrari was at least the second fastest car at Canada. Rosberg was 10th at the end of Lap 1, had a puncture, similar brake warnings and fuel warnings as Raikkonen and a spin to boot and STILL finished ahead of Raikkonen.

Ferrari are clearly aiming to become World Champions again and Raikkonen is not consistent enough anymore to deliver that. I'm also of the view that you cannot just have one charger in your team. Those days and times are past and the threat of RBR beating Ferrari for the WCC is very real. If Kimi cannot deliver more than this, Ferrari or Raikkonen himself need to call time on his career.

Unfortunately, Ricciardo seems locked up at Red Bull. If I were Ferrari boss, I'd seriously not know who to hire. Grosjean, Perez, Hulkenberg, Bottas and Button are options. Sainz will be a serious gamble! Personally, I'd try to steal Rosberg or Ricciardo.
The strategy didnt work so well for Ferrari and it affected both drivers result. Kimi was even more affected because he had not so much clean air as Sebastian had. Moreover Kimi had more problems to make the tyres work better(Here we could blame the driver).

On the other hand, Mercedes was clearly faster than Ferrari. Vettel was only able to reduce the gap during some laps even with an strategy to help him to push more. But Hamilton was able to manage this gape and increase it even with much older tyres. The victory was only possible for Sebastian if he would have been in the front and defending himself desperately from Hamilton´s attacks.

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Schuttelberg
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Phil wrote:I think part of the problem with Kimi's race is that he got the bad end of the strategy twice. At the start, Rosberg cut back onto the track causing a bit of chaos. Thrn, on the first pit stop, both Vettel and Hamilton had already pulled a significant gap to the RedBulls in 3rd. Vettel pitted under the virtual safetycar but that phase ended as he was in. He still benefitted off it, just. Kimi did not.

Then, Vettel also had the advantage of running in clear air most of the race. The two Redbulls he caught, were both on old tires, so it was a straight forward pass, car on fresh tires vs car on old ones. Kimi never had that advantage, he was always racing against cars on pretty much identical tires.

Having said that, i do however agree that Ferrari will need change and Kimi doesnt cut it. He might have a lot of bad luck that is outside of his direct control, but i do think Ferrari needs two stellar drivers if they want to compete for championships.
The problem with Raikkonen is not so much on a Sunday. Half his 'compounded bad luck' begins on Saturday. Passing in F1 is always a challenge unless there is a significant car advantage or tyre advantage and Kimi simply can't ring a lap out that puts him high enough on the grid to have a chance on Sunday. There is this constant 'no temperature in the tyres' reason, but the better drivers adapt to it and he simply doesn't adapt enough to justify one of the better seats in F1.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

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Vasconia
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Schuttelberg wrote:
The problem with Raikkonen is not so much on a Sunday. Half his 'compounded bad luck' begins on Saturday. Passing in F1 is always a challenge unless there is a significant car advantage or tyre advantage and Kimi simply can't ring a lap out that puts him high enough on the grid to have a chance on Sunday. There is this constant 'no temperature in the tyres' reason, but the better drivers adapt to it and he simply doesn't adapt enough to justify one of the better seats in F1.
Raikkonen has always been a very sensitive driver with the front end. If he cant feel it he becomes a mediocre driver. This is one of his biggest problems and he suffers a lot on qualy because of it.

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Schuttelberg
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Vasconia wrote:
Schuttelberg wrote:
The problem with Raikkonen is not so much on a Sunday. Half his 'compounded bad luck' begins on Saturday. Passing in F1 is always a challenge unless there is a significant car advantage or tyre advantage and Kimi simply can't ring a lap out that puts him high enough on the grid to have a chance on Sunday. There is this constant 'no temperature in the tyres' reason, but the better drivers adapt to it and he simply doesn't adapt enough to justify one of the better seats in F1.
Raikkonen has always been a very sensitive driver with the front end. If he cant feel it he becomes a mediocre driver. This is one of his biggest problems and he suffers a lot on qualy because of it.
I agree with you, but everything has a tipping point. In my opinion, and it's just my opinion, Ferrari aren't going to win the WCC with him at the wheel. You can take a look at it from any perspective you like, Raikkonen comes up short. There are a lot of drivers capable of doing more for the team than what he's doing at the moment and they will do it for cheaper. Not to mention, Raikkonen isn't a spring chicken anymore! Ferrari simply need to get a better driver who can challenge Vettel and the team itself to grow and get better. There's a reason Verstappen's move was fast forwarded to 2016 and it's not just to prevent him from jumping to a rival team. Red Bull realise they can get Ferrari in the WCC and for that they need two drivers scoring regularly and scoring big. If Ferrari are serious about winning championships, they simply need a fresher outlook in terms of hiring their second driver.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

LionKing
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Phil wrote:I think part of the problem with Kimi's race is that he got the bad end of the strategy twice. At the start, Rosberg cut back onto the track causing a bit of chaos. Thrn, on the first pit stop, both Vettel and Hamilton had already pulled a significant gap to the RedBulls in 3rd. Vettel pitted under the virtual safetycar but that phase ended as he was in. He still benefitted off it, just. Kimi did not.

Then, Vettel also had the advantage of running in clear air most of the race. The two Redbulls he caught, were both on old tires, so it was a straight forward pass, car on fresh tires vs car on old ones. Kimi never had that advantage, he was always racing against cars on pretty much identical tires.

Having said that, i do however agree that Ferrari will need change and Kimi doesnt cut it. He might have a lot of bad luck that is outside of his direct control, but i do think Ferrari needs two stellar drivers if they want to compete for championships.
Kimi did not lose out due to the first lap incident though. He was 6th on the grid and he was 5th behind Vettel, Lewis and the two RBRs when the cars were sorted out after the start .

As for the safety car, they both had to drive slowly to the VSC limit before the pit entry, then the same pit lane speed limit, then pit stop and the pit exit, at which point they both could go to the racing speed as the VSC condition was lifted. The relative advantage Vettel got over Kimi was about 2.5 seconds on in-lap before the pit entry. ( Since he was the car in front when VSC was deployed, he spends the least distance under VSC speed compared to other cars behind.)

Kimi also could not even keep up with the Red Bulls in front. He fell 3.7 seconds behind Ricciardo before he pitted in lap 11. He had no pace at Canada.

I share the opinion that Ferrari has to replace him with a better and younger prospect as well. Merc and RBR have both excellent driver line-ups.

kptaylor
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Okay, I'll say it. Alonso back to Ferrari in Kimi's place. They want/need two drivers capable of scoring points, being consistent and dealing with two top drivers at Mercedes.

nokivasara
nokivasara
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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kptaylor wrote:Okay, I'll say it. Alonso back to Ferrari in Kimi's place. They want/need two drivers capable of scoring points, being consistent and dealing with two top drivers at Mercedes.
I think that McLaren or Renault will win WCC before Ferrari so I hope he doesn't go back...

I'd like to see Grosjean in a Ferrari if Kimi leaves.

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SectorOne
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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If i was Ferrari i would try to get my hands on Perez or Sainz.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

Jolle
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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SectorOne wrote:If i was Ferrari i would try to get my hands on Perez or Sainz.
McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes invested a whole lot in their young driver program's the past decades and to some extent only Hamilton is a product of this in the six seats those three teams occupy at the moment.

It would be logical that when/if Kimi/Nico/Jenson decided or are asked to leave, their places will finally be taken by protégés of their program's. Else it's a bit of a pointless operation and investment.

So, Perez to Ferrari, Wehrlein next to Hamilton and Vandoorne instead of Jenson.
This should freshen up the field. Button could be a gentleman at Williams, Rosberg mentoring Kvyat at Renault.

efuloni
efuloni
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Brazilian press says (a renowned reporter called Fabio Seixas) that Perez and Ferrari nogociations are in an "advanced stage". It also reports that Carlos Slim, the mexican Midas, believes that the failure at McLaren and the two and a half seasons in FI were enough to turn Checo into a "mature driver". Link, in portuguese: http://sportv.globo.com/site/blogs/espe ... can16.html

About Williams, I said last year and I repeat now that I'd like very much to see a Button-Massa pair. Two old nice guys going for one last ride. haha.

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ME4ME
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Perez to Ferrari, i'd like that. Not only would he make a good fit with the team, he also deserves it.

Such a move would also make space for Wehrlein to join Force India. I'm sure Mercedes would like that. Because they rate him too high for him to be stuck at Manor, but he isn't in any way a candidate for the main team yet.

efuloni
efuloni
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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I'm sure Perez deserve it, but makes me sad seeing Hulk once again be ignored. He had amazing seasons in the past years and it was never enough. It seems that for the other of his generations in middle teams (grosjean, bottas and perez) its easier.

As someone said, I would like to see what Red Bull would do if they lose Kvyat and Sainz. They have only Gasly to put in F1 now, so they would have to hire someone from other team, and this is something they don't do since... Webber?

flickerf1
flickerf1
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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efuloni wrote:I'm sure Perez deserve it, but makes me sad seeing Hulk once again be ignored. He had amazing seasons in the past years and it was never enough. It seems that for the other of his generations in middle teams (grosjean, bottas and perez) its easier.

As someone said, I would like to see what Red Bull would do if they lose Kvyat and Sainz. They have only Gasly to put in F1 now, so they would have to hire someone from other team, and this is something they don't do since... Webber?
I kinda agree with you, but Hulk gotten beaten by Checo in 2015 and had a lot of clumsy incidents last year (i.e. Singapore w/ Felipe Massa). And has never been on the podium once. While Checo has been on there six times.
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Vasconia
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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flickerf1 wrote:
efuloni wrote:I'm sure Perez deserve it, but makes me sad seeing Hulk once again be ignored. He had amazing seasons in the past years and it was never enough. It seems that for the other of his generations in middle teams (grosjean, bottas and perez) its easier.

As someone said, I would like to see what Red Bull would do if they lose Kvyat and Sainz. They have only Gasly to put in F1 now, so they would have to hire someone from other team, and this is something they don't do since... Webber?
I kinda agree with you, but Hulk gotten beaten by Checo in 2015 and had a lot of clumsy incidents last year (i.e. Singapore w/ Felipe Massa). And has never been on the podium once. While Checo has been on there six times.
I have always followed Hulk and I though he deserved a seat in a top team but his last season hasnt be that good and he is being outperformed by Perez.

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superdowg316
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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efuloni wrote:I'm sure Perez deserve it, but makes me sad seeing Hulk once again be ignored. He had amazing seasons in the past years and it was never enough. It seems that for the other of his generations in middle teams (grosjean, bottas and perez) its easier.

As someone said, I would like to see what Red Bull would do if they lose Kvyat and Sainz. They have only Gasly to put in F1 now, so they would have to hire someone from other team, and this is something they don't do since... Webber?
As much as I love the "24h of Le Mans Winner Nico Hulkenberg" memes, fact is that Sergio, and I hate to say this because I got the chance to meet Hulk at the AUS GP this year, is pretty much the better/faster driver in the same car at the moment, which is a damn shame because I think Hulk has equal or even more talent than him, but he isn't able to show it for whatever reason.

Remember, astonishingly Hulk has never stood on a F1 podium. Sergio has only had two years where he was off it.
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