2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

[Jolle]

I know they were racing for position in Hungary, just like they were in Monaco. Rosberg had a chance to win at Hungary in 2014 if Hamilton let him by, but he didn't and he was justified to do so. I understand Mercedes perspective at Monaco this year, I'm just saying that if Rosberg wants to win the WDC, he needs to be ruthless. Saying, 'I'm not letting Lewis past, if he can pass me, well and good,' would have been the right thing to do for his championship chances.

Sorry, I didn't want to come across condescending or as aggressive.

Two points:
Hungary was different, not because Nico had a shot at the win, but because on lap 55 of the Hungarian GP, they could have put either driver on that different strategy. They chose to leave the leading driver (Hamilton) out and pit the other on fresh tires (Rosberg). This is what gave Rosberg the opportunity to win. My point was that given they were both racing each other, they could have simply pitted both drivers and both would have had the chance to fight for the win. It made no sense to put Rosberg on a different, potentially better, strategy and then have Hamilton move aside for it. That is what happened and so before that lap 55 when Rosberg was close to Hamilton and they wanted him to wave past Rosberg, Hamilton second guessed that order, saying that he wouldn't slow down. Watching the race, Rosberg wasn't in a position to attempt a pass himself.

Was it wrong to disobey team-orders? Yes. No driver is bigger than the team. Was it (morally) right to ask Hamilton to let Rosberg by? IMO no, given they could have put either drivers on that strategy and avoided the whole topic together.

2nd point - Monaco - Nico had an issue. It perhaps wasn't of technical nature, but one of confidence. Even so, when one driver is struggling as much as Nico did, there's no way as a team you want him holding up your other driver. To do so would be self destructing for both and the team. As I just posted in the Mercedes team-topic, I actually think Rosberg was relieved once he got the order to let Hamilton by. I think part of the reason of his lack of confidence was how aggressive Hamilton was behaving in Nico's rear. He didn't want to put his car in the wall and risk a DNF at his home race, but he didn't have the confidence under those conditions with the state of his tires.

I actually think Monaco was quite fair. The team gave the order to speed up. Then when failing to do so, they eventually gave the order to let him past. At that point, the situation isn't much different than if you are handicapped by a car issue and that is preventing you from performing at your best. Why destroy the race for the rest of the 600+ employees who worked hard to get both cars on the grid? Fair play if they are both going at it with everything working normal, but when facing issues like Rosberg did in Monaco?

Plus, don't know if you watched the Hungarian race, Rosberg never was close enough for Hamilton to let him pass. He was already asking for Lewis to move aside from 100m distance. Hamiltonian respond then was: "he needs to get closer to pass me" and he didn't.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Like I said earlier, this has nothing to do with the Turn 1 episode for me. I know they were racing for position in Hungary, just like they were in Monaco. Rosberg had a chance to win at Hungary in 2014 if Hamilton let him by, but he didn't and he was justified to do so. I understand Mercedes perspective at Monaco this year, I'm just saying that if Rosberg wants to win the WDC, he needs to be ruthless. Saying, 'I'm not letting Lewis past, if he can pass me, well and good,' would have been the right thing to do for his championship chances.

You can't be serious here. Nico was stuck behind Jean Eric Vergne for a very long time (16 laps) and couldn't clear him and that is where he lost it. He then had to pit. When Lewis then came behind JEV, he went for an audacious outside move and cleared him (2 laps), showing how to do the overtaking. So, to say Nico had a chance to win, is simply about forgetting all the realities of that day.

[Just_a_fan]

Hamilton rejected a similar team order at Hungary in 2014, another circuit notoriously difficult to pass.

Not quite. In Hungary, Rosberg was some way behind Hamilton and not catching that quickly. Hamilton said he would let him by once he caught up but wouldn't slow down to help him catch up. That's fair enough. In Monaco, Hamilton was all over Rosberg's gearbox. If Hamilton had been several seconds back with a slow closure rate then the order would have been wrong and Rosberg would have been right to object just as Hamilton did previously.

[Just_a_fan]

I disagree on that. Vettel and and Alonso wouldn't have put their cars there because they would have known the outcome. Rosberg just didn't see that coming because he wouldn't have done what Hamiton did.
Some people in sport would step on their own granny to win, others wouldn't and they judge the competition with that view IMHO.

You obviously forget that Rosberg did the very same thing to Hamilton at the very same corner in a previous Canadian GP.

Rosberg tried to go around the outside without sufficient lead in to the corner. That's a mug's game. He's done a much better job of it before so he can do it but on Sunday I think the red mist descended slightly and he forgot about the inevitable squeeze.

[Vasconia]

Rosberg can´t fight wheel to wheel. You can´t win a WDC like this, specially if your team mate is that good. I like the guy, but as a driver I´m afraid he´s several steps down Lewis

What a race for Carlos!. On a power track, with a year old Ferrari PU, he managed to climb from p20 to p9 and score 2 point, impressive. Kvyat countdown in F1 is accelerating

You don´t need to figure it out, he did exactly the same only two races ago, only difference is Nico move cost 43 points to the team (ruined an easy 1-2), while Lewis one only cost 8 points (from p2 to p5 for Nico)

Sincerely, that is what happens when one of your drivers push the other to the grass, and the team say there´s none to blame. Lewis took note and applied same theory yesterday, except situation was a lot more excusable (first corner and he didn´t do any mistake, unlike Nico who pushed Lewis out after his own mistake with PU mapping)

Nico got in return same he did two races ago.

People tend to forget those movements when they are done by Lewis, its funny. I wont bring back what happened in Barcelona. I will simply say that Lewis knows that he is far superior to Nico in those wheel to wheel battles and he acts differently as he would do with Alonso or Vettel. With thouse drivers he would be hard but more cautious, with Nico not.

Sainz is doing a great, I cant wait to see him in another team.

I disagree on that. Vettel and and Alonso wouldn't have put their cars there because they would have known the outcome. Rosberg just didn't see that coming because he wouldn't have done what Hamiton did.
Some people in sport would step on their own granny to win, others wouldn't and they judge the competition with that view IMHO.

Really? because I have seen Rosberg doing the same, not as many times as Lewis does but yes, I have seen him doing the same. So I dont think that Nico is so naive, perhaps he was too optimistic, which is something that happens often with drivers who want to overtake.

[Vasconia]

Previously they were very good but these days they are like fish out of the water.
Experts in the Ferrari team must be having better data to confirm their 2 stop strategy which we cannot see.
None the less unless that chasis and aero improves there is no hope this season.
Its bad luck that there was no rain nor any SC. They played their cards based on uncertain events. Luck is not on Ferrari's side at the moment.

I dont think so. Ferrari is still good managing the tyres but the temperatures were cold and Ferrari is usually much better with higher temperaturas. The conditions were perfect for Mercedes.

The mistake here is on the conclusions and the strategy made by the team. Because they thought that the tyres werent going to last so much. They did, or at least Lewis was able to do it.

Lets see what happens in Bakú with high temperatures, perhaps Mercedes could have some problems.

[F1NAC]

I expected Ferrari to suffer with low temps but they did fine, also was expecting RB to be much better with cooler temps. Another interesting thing was Rosberg unable to pass Raikkonen with DRS, until he caught Kimi napping

[foxmulder_ms]

Race was really interesting between Vettel and Hamilton. I though Ferrari was brilliant with their safety car pit stop but apparently Hamilton's mercedes was just faster overall in one stop strategy. good race, good race... Kind of disappointed with Redbull. I was expecting more from them but I guess it was Monaco specific form.

[A-Bap]

People tend to forget those movements when they are done by Lewis, its funny. I wont bring back what happened in Barcelona. I will simply say that Lewis knows that he is far superior to Nico in those wheel to wheel battles and he acts differently as he would do with Alonso or Vettel. With thouse drivers he would be hard but more cautious, with Nico not.

Sainz is doing a great, I cant wait to see him in another team.

I disagree on that. Vettel and and Alonso wouldn't have put their cars there because they would have known the outcome. Rosberg just didn't see that coming because he wouldn't have done what Hamiton did.

Some people in sport would step on their own granny to win, others wouldn't and they judge the competition with that view IMHO.

Really? because I have seen Rosberg doing the same, not as many times as Lewis does but yes, I have seen him doing the same. So I dont think that Nico is so naive, perhaps he was too optimistic, which is something that happens often with drivers who want to overtake.

Nico was (just) ahead, and Lewis was in his blind spot: racing incident. It was refreshing to hear Nico's candor about his race. No whining, no "can't follow in these cars," or "can't pass here." What really gag's me is the media's double standard when it comes to Lewis and Nico's aggressiveness. Nico get's all this tisk-tisk-tisk while Lewis is lauded.

[dans79]

Lewis was dumb enough to do it in 2014. What's so special about Nico doing it?

In 2014 Lewis was smart to back out of it and tuck in behind Nico.

It's pretty plain for all to see, Nico does not do well in wheel to wheel racing.

[proteus]

Most boring race in the season so far...Vettel saved 3 times by the asphalted zone, and Rosberg twice...90% and even more of overtakes performed purely by DRS...Vettel, Rosberg and Hamilton rewarded with no serious loss of time due to their mistakes on track...I seriously miss the 90s and early 2000s...

[giantfan10]

Forgot to comment about Ferrari.... OMG Ferrari.... Their strategists should be fired, actually they should have been fired long ago, I lost count how many times they messed it up

Also, their pit-stop mechanics are far from what a team like Ferrari should enjoy, almost 1 second slower than RB, 2,3 vs 3,1 seconds. That´s a lot of time in F1 and specially at the pitstops, since that´s the best chance to overtake, or to be overtaken

Sheesh... you should know better....
How about we fire every single strategist on the pit wall because every single team yesterday ran a 2 stop race with at least one of their cars thinking that the softs would not last that long.
Mercedes with Hamilton planned a two stopper and switched to a one stopper because they rightly sssumed that was the only way they had a shot of finishing ahead of Vettel.
How about we fire every strategist not on the podium too?..heck lets fire pirelli too because the soft tire never hit a cliff and kept going like the energizer bunny...lol
Hindsight is a mofo.
Pit stops and red bull... really?? After Monaco and ricciardos long stop with right front wheel issues in canad you hold red bull as some shining example of pit stop perfection?
Reality is Ferrari had the third best pit stop with vettel behind bottas and hamilton..... red bulls best pit stop was 10th best with Ricciardo... total pit stop time.

[Phil]

Most boring race in the season so far...

It's funny, but this actually got me thinking. With the introduction of the virtual safety car, it has made races much more predictable. Canada has always been a "high risk circuit" with I think a rate of 60% chance of a safety car. What perhaps made this year a bit boring was that there wasn't any crash that led to one of these safety cars. And when Buttons car imploded, a Virtual Safetycar was enough to neutralize the obstacle where perhaps in previous years, the safety car would have had to come out which then would lead to the pack being bunched up and unleashing chaos where otherwise would be none.

Can't have everything...

[Jolle]

Forgot to comment about Ferrari.... OMG Ferrari.... Their strategists should be fired, actually they should have been fired long ago, I lost count how many times they messed it up

Also, their pit-stop mechanics are far from what a team like Ferrari should enjoy, almost 1 second slower than RB, 2,3 vs 3,1 seconds. That´s a lot of time in F1 and specially at the pitstops, since that´s the best chance to overtake, or to be overtaken

Sheesh... you should know better....
How about we fire every single strategist on the pit wall because every single team yesterday ran a 2 stop race with at least one of their cars thinking that the softs would not last that long.
Mercedes with Hamilton planned a two stopper and switched to a one stopper because they rightly sssumed that was the only way they had a shot of finishing ahead of Vettel.
How about we fire every strategist not on the podium too?..heck lets fire pirelli too because the soft tire never hit a cliff and kept going like the energizer bunny...lol
Hindsight is a mofo.
Pit stops and red bull... really?? After Monaco and ricciardos long stop with right front wheel issues in canad you hold red bull as some shining example of pit stop perfection?
Reality is Ferrari had the third best pit stop with vettel behind bottas and hamilton..... red bulls best pit stop was 10th best with Ricciardo... total pit stop time.

It looks more like Arrivebene is already under thread, like a football team that isn't winning. He looked stressed after the race. After a good start last year under his reign the team doesn't deliver. Vettel knew, however he had track position at the start he would probably loose out on pace compared to Mercedes

[SectorOne]

Good banter between Vettel and Hamilton.

https://streamable.com/q5xd