2017 tyre testing cars

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Fulcrum
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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Considering this was published in Nature I'm sure its true.

Oh...

This is pure click-bait. Without the bit about Ferrari's 'lack of downforce', the article reads like an Excel spreadsheet.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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Big Mangalhit wrote:Ferrari with that huge wing and skirts failed to produce any more DF?? Jeez they are looking good this year. I know it means nothing for next year but PR wise...
More like Ferrari modified the 2015 car to have 2016 levels of downforce to see how next year's tires differ from the current compounds. Not a bad strategy, but a very unconventional way to conduct a validations test. Probably this data get's fed into their simulators.
Saishū kōnā

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Big Mangalhit
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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That makes more sense. Although I think maybe what they should have used is that Williams testing rear and front adjustable wings. Maybe then they could have changed DF levels on the fly and have more data points about grip/DF for their simulator. A lot more data I think. But maybe I am way off and they can't handle another variable in their data gathering.

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Drica
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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Juzh wrote:Posting this here as well.

Some new info on the 2017 tire testing so far:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 78262.html
While Mercedes struggled with bad weather and rain during the 2017 tyre tests in Barcelona, Red Bull's Pierre Gasly enjoyed far smoother running in Abu Dhabi at temperatures of up to 38°C - with good results.
According to Red Bull's team principal Christian Horner there are a number of promising and one perfect compound among the batch of Pirelli's 2017 testing tyres, "Even during multiple fast laps in succession, this compound did not overheat and degraded in a very predictable, controlled manner despite the track conditions. Lap times were surprisingly consistent."
A contact patch 25 percent larger works wonders here. An employee of Pirelli revealed that the company is making progress on implementing a 'cliff' into the tyres. Using two layers of rubber this year has not produced such a pronounced loss of grip from one lap to the other that forces a driver to pit.
Red Bull's RB11 mule car provided Pirelli with the most relevant data. According to sources within Red Bull, the mule car has approximately 10 to 12 percentage points more downforce than the current RB12. Mercedes' mule car is reported to have 3 to 5 percent more downforce than the W07 whereas Ferrari failed to make any downforce gains when modifying their 2015 car altogether. The side-skirts do not work and there is no spare capacity at the Scuderia to modify the mule further.
Ferrari's current F1 drivers are the most active, however, with Sebastian Vettel racking up 1,100 km and Kimi Räikkönnen putting in 520 km. Red Bull's Daniel Ricciardo and Max Verstappen will only step foot into the mule cars and try out the wider Pirelli rubber at the last test in Abu Dhabi. Among the other current F1 drivers, Nico Rosberg tested for 220 km in Barcelona with weather conditions interfering.
At the very top of the table of test and junior drivers is Pascal Wehrlein (current F1 driver, but tests for Mercedes) with 2,700 km followed by Pierre Gasly (1,600 km), Sebastien Buemi (1,200) km, and Esteban Gutierrez (500 km).
Wow, wait. So they are implementing a cliff into these tires? So does that mean that they are again designed to just fail(grip wise, not structurally). Artificially making a better show, im not sure this is what we want

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djos
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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Drica wrote: Wow, wait. So they are implementing a cliff into these tires? So does that mean that they are again designed to just fail(grip wise, not structurally). Artificially making a better show, im not sure this is what we want
I'm ok with a grip cliff as long as the tires can be raced on flat out for their designed duration.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Drica
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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djos wrote:
Drica wrote: Wow, wait. So they are implementing a cliff into these tires? So does that mean that they are again designed to just fail(grip wise, not structurally). Artificially making a better show, im not sure this is what we want
I'm ok with a grip cliff as long as the tires can be raced on flat out for their designed duration.
And then fuel saving kicks in

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djos
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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Drica wrote:
djos wrote:
Drica wrote: Wow, wait. So they are implementing a cliff into these tires? So does that mean that they are again designed to just fail(grip wise, not structurally). Artificially making a better show, im not sure this is what we want
I'm ok with a grip cliff as long as the tires can be raced on flat out for their designed duration.
And then fuel saving kicks in
I don't think that had been much of an issue this year, maybe in year one of the hybrid formula but a lot less so now.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Nickel
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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With all due respect, fuel saving and tire saving have a profoundly different effect on the racing. Fuel saving means lift and coast at 310 instead of brake at 320. Imperceptible.

Cornering at 220 or 240 however...

Tires that can be pushed might actually save a bit of fuel as you're coming out of the corner faster and you didn't slow down as much in the first place.

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Juzh
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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Nickel wrote: Tires that can be pushed might actually save a bit of fuel as you're coming out of the corner faster and you didn't slow down as much in the first place.
Which means you've used up more fuel trough the corner itself.

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SR71
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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Juzh wrote:
Nickel wrote: Tires that can be pushed might actually save a bit of fuel as you're coming out of the corner faster and you didn't slow down as much in the first place.
Which means you've used up more fuel trough the corner itself.

A corner which you spent drastically less time in...

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turbof1
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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Juzh wrote:
Nickel wrote: Tires that can be pushed might actually save a bit of fuel as you're coming out of the corner faster and you didn't slow down as much in the first place.
Which means you've used up more fuel trough the corner itself.
And after the corner as well, as you'd be faster on 10,500 rpm, at which point you can run the maximum 100kg/h, against exiting the corner at a lower rpm and hence also lower fuel flow.
#AeroFrodo

Manoah2u
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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but wouldn't the lesser loss of speed also signify you dont 'need' to regain that speed lost, which costs more fuel in comparison, or am i way off here?
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
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while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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turbof1
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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Manoah2u wrote:but wouldn't the lesser loss of speed also signify you dont 'need' to regain that speed lost, which costs more fuel in comparison, or am i way off here?
Only if you'd stay at the same speed as if you did not have the extra grip (you'd leverage that extra speed for lift and coast). If not, you'd be earlier on the throttle, longer on the throttle and longer in the higher, more fuel consuming range of rpm.

Example: I exit the same corner with a 2016 car, and with a 2017 car. Say I have 500m of a straight right after the corner. Fuel flow limiter is Q (kg/h) = (0.009 x RPM) + 5. Just for simplification's sake, imagine rpm increases linear by 500 over 10m acceleration, and by decreases linear by 1000 over 10m deacceleration.

-Imagine I exit the corner at 6,000 rpm in the 2016 car, and need 20m before I can rev up higher. I also need 60m to sufficiently reduce speed for the next corner which I can take at 8000 rpm. That leaves me with 420m that I can use full throttle. My average fuel flow will be 93,56, for those 420m.

-Now Imagine I exit the corner at 7000 rpm in the 2017 car, and only need 10m before I can rev up higher. I also only need 40m to sufficiently slow down to 9000 rpm. That leaves me with 440m to use full throttle. My average fuel flow will be 96,94 over 450m.
#AeroFrodo

Manoah2u
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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Clear explenation, thanks.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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I don't think we'll see faster pitstops next season. Not sure, but the wheels are probably heavier next season.