[MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

Post here information about your own engineering projects, including but not limited to building your own car or designing a virtual car through CAD.
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LVDH
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Joined: 31 Mar 2015, 14:23

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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No, not yet. I am testing the settings on a batch of 16 cases. So getting the new settings will take a while but will be well tested this time.

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CAEdevice
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Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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OK, thank you.

The mesh will be the same or similar in 2017? My car required around 5x10^6 cells, it would not be a problem to have 10x10^6 or more.

rjsa
rjsa
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 03:01

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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I've been running some setups in the virtual stopwatch and am finding the same ones fastest at both Le Mans and Sepang. I'm confused: wouldn't higher DF, even if lower efficiency be faster at Sepang?

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CAEdevice
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Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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I am not sure, but Sepang and Le Mans required a similar setup for our cars.

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machin
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Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 14:45

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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rjsa wrote:I've been running some setups in the virtual stopwatch and am finding the same ones fastest at both Le Mans and Sepang. I'm confused: wouldn't higher DF, even if lower efficiency be faster at Sepang?
Both those tracks are "low downforce" relatively speaking, but if you look in the data window at the bottom of the Virtual Stopwatch panel you will see that the trade-off between drag and downforce at Le Mans is slightly more in favour of lower drag at Le Mans than it is at Sepang...
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rjsa
rjsa
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 03:01

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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ok, tried monaco and the ring and got the expected results.

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CAEdevice
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Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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Hi, is there any news about the cooling flow? I have done some tests (with very small cooling outlets in order to simulate a higher pressure drop inside the ducts) and, above a specific flow rate value, I am not sure I will go on with the same car layout for both the "open source" (~lmp2) and "top class" (~lmp1) car.

MadMatt
MadMatt
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Joined: 08 Jan 2011, 16:04

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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Despite I have not got the time to enter (nor the level, judging by the competition last year), I still admire you guys and I follow your progresses. Keep up the good work, I am sure some teams will be looking at that thread in no time at this rate of level up! :D

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CAEdevice
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Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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MadMatt wrote:Despite I have not got the time to enter (nor the level, judging by the competition last year), I still admire you guys and I follow your progresses. Keep up the good work, I am sure some teams will be looking at that thread in no time at this rate of level up! :D
The level was ok, I remember a good performance of your car. It would be great to you with us again. The ~Lmp2 class will be interesting and will require less time.

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variante
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Joined: 09 Apr 2012, 11:36
Location: Monza

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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Oh look! dear old KVRC! http://www.unifimotorsport.com/home.html

But wait...it looks a bit different from what it used to be... :wtf:

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Alonso Fan
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Joined: 06 Apr 2013, 18:21

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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variante wrote:Oh look! dear old KVRC! http://www.unifimotorsport.com/home.html

But wait...it looks a bit different from what it used to be... :wtf:
Also a bit expensive compared to kvrc
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SR71
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Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 21:23

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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Interested in dipping my toes back in....

Any chance we could look at opening the bodywork regulations up?

I'd love to remove the "wheels must not be viable from the front" regulation and try my CAD hand at something like the ROBOrace philosophy.

Still blocking visibility from the top however.

Thoughts?

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CAEdevice
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Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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Hi, I did some rough extimation of the needed cooling flow and LDVH is right (no doubts about it, but I always need to verify by myself). A reasonable cooling flow, given the power of our cars, is value between 3m^3/s and 6m^3/s.

My doubts are related to the inlet area: not only for MVRC cars, but also for real LMP1 and Formula 1 cars. How did they obtain such flow rate? Considering the pressure drop caused by the heat exchanger, and that the inlet is directly hit by the flow (not actually true), I would need very large inlets (above 80000 mm2).

Maybe that putting the outlets in a negative pressure region has an important role?

I also confirm the other point LDVH listed: the pressure drop (internal hx resistance) is a bit too low (maybe 25%).

I have to say that the MVRC experience actually changed the way I look at the aerodynamics of a racing car.

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machin
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Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 14:45

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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I thought I would post my original flow rate calculations that I did for the old KVRC. (Back in 2015). You can see that I calculated what I considered to be realistic values, but we (Julien and I) agreed to reduce them to make the challenge a little easier whilst we introduced this extra part of the challenge: we always planned on increasing them when everyone had got to grips with them:
Machin wrote:Just as a bit of background about myself; I currently work for an engine manufacturer that supplies engines to military applications (land and marine); not exactly race engines but they are still high performance sequentially turbocharged internal combustion engines to which I have access to all of the testing data.  My job is helping our customers design their vehicles to accept our engines, including specifying their cooling, exhaust and intake systems.

From our test bed data I know a good modern engine has an energy break-down roughly as follows: Mechanical output = 40%, Energy dissipated through cooling system = 21%, Radiated heat = 2%, Wasted in exhaust =  37%.  Total =100%.  
After application of our power curve we typically see average power outputs of about 300kW across the typical KVRC lap.  So using the figures above you would need about 160kW of cooling (21/40 x 300 = 160kW) on average over the lap.  We run the CFD at 100mph (44.7m/s), which isn't too far off the average lap times of these cars, so we're looking for a cooling flow in the test that is sufficient to dissipate the full 160kW cooling requirement.  With air at 1.2 kg/m^3, specific heat of 1.005kJ/kg.K and a 25degC delta T we need 5.3m^3/sec (160/(25*1.2*1.005) = 5.3)...  We rounded that figure down to 5 to account for the fact that the average lap speed is normally a little more than 100mph.

For this year, to ease ourselves and competitors into this we're looking for a further reduced figure of 3m^3/sec (that's total for the whole car - both side pods, so 1.5m^3/sec through each side pod).

Also this year we have mandated a minimum radiator face area, again just to ease ourselves and competitors into this extra dimension to the competition.  The minimum area of each radiator is 0.2m^2, so we're looking for a "face velocity" through each radiator of about 7.5m/s (1.5/0.2), which is about 16% of the free-stream velocity of 44.7m/s

Let me know if you think there are any errors in that, but I think the numbers all seem reasonable.  The proof also seems to be proven in the results: we had one car which was submitted without a front wing and he achieved the cooling flow figures easily; proving we can't be too wrong.  I think the reality is that Variante's huge front wing assembly is simply unrealistic.  It will be interesting to see what he cuts it down to in an effort to get sufficient cooling, but CAEDevice, JJR and TF have all achieved the cooling requirements whilst still having pretty good front downforce....

As I say, let me know if you think there are any errors you can see in the maths, but I'm confident on the 160kW cooling requirement  for a 300kW mechanical output as I "stole" that ratio off some actual engine test bed results!
Pressure loss through Radiators:
Machin wrote:I did a quick calculation based on the method used in "Flow of fluids through valves,fittings and pipes" by Crane (http://www.amazon.com/Fluids-Through-Va ... B003152YTG).  Taking one sidepod on its own and a figure of 2.65m^3/sec flowing through it I found that the pressure difference required to generate that flow through a radiator in the duct ("modeled" as a mesh with a flow coefficient according to the book referenced above) was 400 Pa. 
Engine intakes and Exhausts:
Machin wrote:In these cases the pressure requirement was simply derived from typical values from real engines; above which the engines start to lose power: On the inlet side pressure can be anything down to 0Pa (Infact, typical engines can pull against a slight negative pressure, but assuming there is some pressure loss in the intake duct I thought 0Pa was a good enough value).  On the exhaust side a typical engine can "overcome" anything up to a back-pressure of +980 Pa without derate.   The velocity was also based on typical "real engine" values: 20m/s on the inlet side and 30m/s on the exhaust side, requiring a total combustion inlet area of 0.015m^2 (0.3m^3/sec/20 = 0.015) and a total exhaust outlet area of 0.01m^2 (0.3m^3/sec/30m/s = 0.01m^2). 
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CAEdevice
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Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2016

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Thank you very much Machin! Your contribution is always precious.