[MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2017

Post here information about your own engineering projects, including but not limited to building your own car or designing a virtual car through CAD.
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CAEdevice
48
Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2017

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Ft5fTL wrote:
31 Oct 2017, 17:06
LVDH wrote:
30 Oct 2017, 18:11
Getting the air in from the sides is the true trick with these cars. It is not knowledge exclusive to that brilliant Italian mind with the unconventional MVCR cars.
I did figured that out on the last years efficiency races and optimized the car accordingly. Sadly this year i couldnt find a way to do that on a desired level.

This will be my last submission for this years competition. I'm using the same car for the last race. I will serve my mandatory military service starting tommorrow. It will end around april 18th (i hope i will be here for the next years competition). So take care everyone.
See you soon! Thank you for taking part in the challenge.

Good luck for your military service, I did it more than 20 years ago: I suggest André to organise a separated league for old men like me next year, you make me feel a dinosaur.
Last edited by CAEdevice on 31 Oct 2017, 17:30, edited 1 time in total.

JJR
JJR
16
Joined: 12 Jul 2013, 20:02

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2017

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Good luck to you PurePower and I hope to see you in next challenge.

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variante
133
Joined: 09 Apr 2012, 11:36
Location: Monza

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2017

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LVDH wrote:
31 Oct 2017, 16:10
variante wrote:
30 Oct 2017, 17:30
My diffuser works the opposite way: less air coming from the front improves its performace. So having the biggest front diffuser/wing is the way to go for my layout. Airflow comes almost exclusively from the sides of the car.
It's a well developed solution, and I know other people adopt it... you might want to explore it ;)
Without really knowing it for sure I think the choice between a floor that draws air from the front (and profits from the sides sealed) and one which gets the air from the sides is a question of how much resistance the air sees traveling through the floor and how good the diffuser sucks air through this bottleneck. Usually in aerodynamics it is good to derive some dimensionless number. I just came up with this:

Diff_factor=((V*h^2)/(l*nu))*((e-e_id)/e_id)^2

With:
  • V - velocity
  • h - floor height
  • l - length of floor
  • nu - kinematic viscosity
  • e - expansion factor diffuser
  • e_id - ideal expansion factor
The idea is that more air velocity and a higher floor help to get air through the floor and a longer length and higher viscosity make it harder. The part with the expansion factors is about how well the floor is designed. The closer you are at the ideal expansion the more you will force through the floor.
I assume that if the Diff_factor is above a certain number, you go for an F1 style diffuser which draws air from the front and below a certain factor you have to get the air from the sides. The question is why you cannot do both.
Given certain boundary conditions, one way is superior to the other. And you may find out that the trade off is in great favor towards the former. While you are forced to deal with both, you do work to make the former prevail over the latter as much as possible.
Practically, I would be happy to see all of the airflow that is fed to the diffuser coming from the sides of the car. The reason is simple: air coming from the sides didn't experience an expansion like air that went through a front wing, so it is faster; also, it already comes at a good angle to shed vortices, thus I can use a diffuser with higher expansion ratio.

What I think you forgot in your equation (even though it is indirecly included) is to take into account the front wing. Feeding the diffuser with air coming from the sides lets you run a front wing which is as aggressive as you like, without affecting the undertray... resulting in a total downforce gain

Ft5fTL wrote:
31 Oct 2017, 17:06
This will be my last submission for this years competition. I'm using the same car for the last race aswell. I will serve my mandatory military service starting tommorrow. It will end around april 18th (i hope i will be here for the next years competition). So take care everyone.
See you soon ;) Take care!

BTW a pity not to see TF racing this time...

rjsa
rjsa
51
Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 03:01

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2017

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Question: Is internal wall thickness subject to the 10mm rule? Like the inside wall of a duct and he outside skin must be 10mm apart?

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LVDH
45
Joined: 31 Mar 2015, 14:23

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2017

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rjsa wrote:
02 Nov 2017, 13:00
Question: Is internal wall thickness subject to the 10mm rule? Like the inside wall of a duct and he outside skin must be 10mm apart?
Without being the rule expert, I would say "obviously yes". One reason for this rule is to avoid meshing issues and it works quite well I have to say. The other one is to keep things realistic.


variante wrote:
02 Nov 2017, 01:23
What I think you forgot in your equation (even though it is indirecly included) is to take into account the front wing. Feeding the diffuser with air coming from the sides lets you run a front wing which is as aggressive as you like, without affecting the undertray... resulting in a total downforce gain
Yes, cars are not airplanes and with their complex shapes difficult to describe with analytical methods. You are free to improve what I made here. A correction factor for energy losses towards the floor will help. Also I think the velocity should be squared as that better describes the energy of the flow. With that other factors have to get squared as well to keep the dimensions in check. Have fun, you are still the student.


Ft5fTL wrote:
31 Oct 2017, 17:06

This will be my last submission for this years competition. I'm using the same car for the last race aswell. I will serve my mandatory military service starting tommorrow. It will end around april 18th (i hope i will be here for the next years competition). So take care everyone.
Sorry to hear, I think you time is much better invested in our virtual championship. I hope you do not eat too much dirt, come back in one piece and get back to designing cool cars next year.

rjsa
rjsa
51
Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 03:01

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2017

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That's what I thought.

@Ft5fTL, good luck mate. And try to make it a valuable experience. I was able to skip it but now I regret it and spend big money to be subjected to some of the hardships I wanted to avoid back then.

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CAEdevice
48
Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2017

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Sorry to bother you LDVH, but I have to decide how (and if) to develop my car. Is there any news about hx rotation in the other direction or about the post processing issues?

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LVDH
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Joined: 31 Mar 2015, 14:23

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2017

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CAEdevice wrote:
04 Nov 2017, 16:44
Sorry to bother you LDVH, but I have to decide how (and if) to develop my car. Is there any news about hx rotation in the other direction or about the post processing issues?
For this season the rotation will only be allowed around the y-axis. But after having seen the cars I will talk to Chris about allowing other dimensions. With some luck I will tomorrow release an updated version of MantiumFlow to deal with the post-processing issues.

For now I have something much better. The lap times are out:
Image
The results are not final as Chris might have to hand out some penalties. However from what I have seen it is unlikely and will not affect the top cars with their wonderful lap times of "---".
Also I am not sure if Richard will be able to release a video today. If not, at some point I might show some compassion and release the other numbers...

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machin
162
Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 14:45

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2017

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The video is ready.... It is very close between the top 3... I will upload it within the next hour...

Do we have any predictions...?
COMPETITION CAR ENGINEERING -Home of VIRTUAL STOPWATCH

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CAEdevice
48
Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2017

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machin wrote:
05 Nov 2017, 14:09
Do we have any predictions...?
I would be quite happy with Rjsa at the top (JJR would deserve another victory but I think about the final result)

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Alonso Fan
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Joined: 06 Apr 2013, 18:21

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2017

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machin wrote:
05 Nov 2017, 14:09
The video is ready.... It is very close between the top 3... I will upload it within the next hour...

Do we have any predictions...?
1. CAEdevice
2. JJR
3. Rjsa

Ps I'm very happy with my results, very close with mercury

PurePower! What happened?

Can't wait to see the breakdown
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LVDH
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Joined: 31 Mar 2015, 14:23

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2017

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Alonso Fan wrote:
05 Nov 2017, 14:37
Ps I'm very happy with my results, very close with mercury
You have definitely made progress this season. Thumbs up.

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machin
162
Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 14:45

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2017

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Well, here we go:

COMPETITION CAR ENGINEERING -Home of VIRTUAL STOPWATCH

rjsa
rjsa
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 03:01

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2017

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I'm surprised I'm in the podium, it is 3rd for me. CAEdevice will take it home.

rjsa
rjsa
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 03:01

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2017

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There you go.