HALO Approved for 2018

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strad
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post by strad » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:32 am

You are fighting like a fish on the end of the line rather than admitting that you just may have been a wee bit wrong in your vociferous defense of the HALO back when the problems that have been shown to be true were first mentioned.
Is it really so hard to admit you may have been wrong on a few points?
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DiogoBrand
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post by DiogoBrand » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:02 am

So everyone knows that the Halo is supposed to protect the driver from impacts to their head, and everyone also knows that the halo makes it more difficult for the driver to get out of the car, or even impossible in certain situations.
But somehow this has turned into a discussion of:
1 - I said a long time ago that the halo would make it more difficult to get out of the car, and now you have to admit that I'm right.

2 - The fact that the halo makes it more difficult to get out of the car is of little relevance, and now you have to admit that it makes the drivers safer.

It's just impressive how on a forum full of engineers and people interested in every technical detail of the most advanced race machines in the world, some arguments make it look like the average age here is 7.

NathanOlder
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post by NathanOlder » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:35 am

strad wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:32 am
You are fighting like a fish on the end of the line rather than admitting that you just may have been a wee bit wrong in your vociferous defense of the HALO back when the problems that have been shown to be true were first mentioned.
Is it really so hard to admit you may have been wrong on a few points?
This,

It obviously is hard. Its really that hard because some argued so hard in the first place that the Halo CANT trap anyone in.
And yet again it will be turned into something about 'why act like children' and 'whats the point in going over it again' because some can't accept they may have got it wrong.
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post by zac510 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:40 am

DiogoBrand wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:02 am

It's just impressive how on a forum full of engineers and people interested in every technical detail of the most advanced race machines in the world, some arguments make it look like the average age here is 7.
I get the impression a lot of people here are arguing against the HALO because they still dislike the aesthetics, so any functional failure of the HALO is an opportunity to attack it.

Just_a_fan
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post by Just_a_fan » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:41 am

zac510 - exactly right.
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post by NathanOlder » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:55 am

I fully agree I hated it's appearance in the build up to this season, but it was pretty obvious straight away that the teams managed to blend it in with the car quite quickly. The driver helmets are a little difficult to see at times but the car numbers are easy to see for any identification. But overall the appearance isn't as bad as first feared.

My only real issue was the drivers escape in an upturned car. And that problem has just been seen in the only time a car has ended up upside-down.
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post by Phil » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:07 pm

I like the aesthetics. I didn't at first, but now I do. Especially from the side profile. :oops:

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AJI
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post by AJI » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:13 pm

Each to his own I suppose.
I can't stand it from an aesthetic PoV, and I'll be happy when it evolves into a much more thoroughly thought-out design. I won't argue the safety benefits as we're flogging a dead horse there, but it definitely doesn't 'fit' on the current cars. Even on the gen 2 FE cars...

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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post by Big Tea » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:24 pm

Guys, leaving aside the fact that it looks crap, and that it may or may not work in XX.X% of incidents, and that it makes getting out more difficult in some cases, if they now decide to say 'yes, we were wrong, take it away', and some one has a serious injury from which may just possibly have slightly saved them, if you look at it in the right light, even if it was their fault for deliberately driving at 300 mph into a brick wall, FIA and all concerned with F1 will end up paying through the nose and possibly even getting locked up, so it is here to stay.

They can not now back down, even in the unlikely case they would anyway.
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AJI
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post by AJI » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:00 pm

Big Tea wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:24 pm
Guys, leaving aside the fact that it looks crap, and that it may or may not work in XX.X% of incidents, and that it makes getting out more difficult in some cases, if they now decide to say 'yes, we were wrong, take it away', and some one has a serious injury from which may just possibly have slightly saved them, if you look at it in the right light, even if it was their fault for deliberately driving at 300 mph into a brick wall, FIA and all concerned with F1 will end up paying through the nose and possibly even getting locked up, so it is here to stay.

They can not now back down, even in the unlikely case they would anyway.
Just because we're stuck with this visual abomination doesn't mean a designer shouldn't be allowed to integrate it into the design in a more aesthetically pleasing manner. I know F1 is function over form, but I will never honestly say I like the look of the current design. Bring on 2021 and it's redesign, hopefully by someone with an eye for aesthetics

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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post by Big Tea » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:39 pm

AJI wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:00 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:24 pm
Guys, leaving aside the fact that it looks crap, and that it may or may not work in XX.X% of incidents, and that it makes getting out more difficult in some cases, if they now decide to say 'yes, we were wrong, take it away', and some one has a serious injury from which may just possibly have slightly saved them, if you look at it in the right light, even if it was their fault for deliberately driving at 300 mph into a brick wall, FIA and all concerned with F1 will end up paying through the nose and possibly even getting locked up, so it is here to stay.

They can not now back down, even in the unlikely case they would anyway.
Just because we're stuck with this visual abomination doesn't mean a designer shouldn't be allowed to integrate it into the design in a more aesthetically pleasing manner. I know F1 is function over form, but I will never honestly say I like the look of the current design. Bring on 2021 and it's redesign, hopefully by someone with an eye for aesthetics
Yes, I think it could be made to look a lot better.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

DiogoBrand
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post by DiogoBrand » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:15 pm

I also think it could look a bit more streamlined, but it doesn't bother me at all anymore, it probably didn't bother me at Australia already.
I can't wait to see 18 inch rims on F1, the only reason we're still stuck to these ancient balloon tyres is because some people don't like how bigger rims look, but if we can get used to the halo, we can definitely get used to different wheels.

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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post by adrianjordan » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:02 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:39 pm
Furthermore, how can there be a procedure for overturning a car when every crash and the associated damage is different?? The procedure is for the FIA doctor to evaluate the scene and take charge - which happened in this incident.
I work for the ambulance service and regularly work alongside the fire service at RTC's and trust me, they have a plan for how they will deal with any situation.

When they were righting Hulk's car in Abu Dhabi you have lot of man handling, but no failsafe for if someone slipped. Since they had presumably decided by that point that Hulk was OK, they could have taken a little bit of time and got the crane in. They could then a have secured a strap to the car and the crane, such that IF the people man-handling the car lost their grip, then the strap to the crane would take the slack, thus avoiding dropping the car and driver.

It is not the Doctor's job to be in charge of how they right the car, he should merely be dictating the urgency of getting then out.

Maybe it's time for them to recruit someone from the Fire Service to be in charge of driver extracation...
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strad
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post by strad » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:54 pm

I get the impression a lot of people here are arguing against the HALO because they still dislike the aesthetics, so any functional failure of the HALO is an opportunity to attack it
So very very wrong. I couldn't care less about how it looks. I care that people can't stand up and say,,"Geeez I guess there are situations where I was wrong. It does make extraction more difficult and it doesn't protect from debris as much as was touted."
Really simple.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

PlatinumZealot
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Re: HALO Approved for 2018

Post by PlatinumZealot » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:09 am

adrianjordan wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:02 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:39 pm
Furthermore, how can there be a procedure for overturning a car when every crash and the associated damage is different?? The procedure is for the FIA doctor to evaluate the scene and take charge - which happened in this incident.
I work for the ambulance service and regularly work alongside the fire service at RTC's and trust me, they have a plan for how they will deal with any situation.

When they were righting Hulk's car in Abu Dhabi you have lot of man handling, but no failsafe for if someone slipped. Since they had presumably decided by that point that Hulk was OK, they could have taken a little bit of time and got the crane in. They could then a have secured a strap to the car and the crane, such that IF the people man-handling the car lost their grip, then the strap to the crane would take the slack, thus avoiding dropping the car and driver.

It is not the Doctor's job to be in charge of how they right the car, he should merely be dictating the urgency of getting then out.

Maybe it's time for them to recruit someone from the Fire Service to be in charge of driver extracation...
Funny thing is all the people talking about Halo is an obstruction to getting out... If the driver had a broken neck for whatever reason.. He still wouldn't be able to get out if he had no Halo to contend with! So it would back to the same situation of gently turning the car right side up.
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