UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

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Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

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fwiw
I don't know whether climategate was climate change scepticism or scepticism of climate change sceptics
it seems clear that continuity of temperature measurements has been destroyed not preserved as might seem vital

by extension there could be a Severngate .....
famous scientist Bondi officially ruled that all the energy was in the Severn estuary (so none in the much bigger Bristol Channel)
leading to an official design and test study of a Severn barrage in the early 1980s
but other experts now say (as experts did before Bondi) that there's far more energy in the BC (than in the Severn estuary)

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Big Tea
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Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 22:57
fwiw
I don't know whether climategate was climate change scepticism or scepticism of climate change sceptics
it seems clear that continuity of temperature measurements has been destroyed not preserved as might seem vital

by extension there could be a Severngate .....
famous scientist Bondi officially ruled that all the energy was in the Severn estuary (so none in the much bigger Bristol Channel)
leading to an official design and test study of a Severn barrage in the early 1980s
but other experts now say (as experts did before Bondi) that there's far more energy in the BC (than in the Severn estuary)
That stretch of water has the second highest tidal range in the world. The water has to rise and the water has to fall.
the store or movement of water is energy. (I think it was) 22 hour per day of generating time.
11 hrs of filling and 11 hrs of draining.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

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22hrs/day is not realistic and anyway not the best way to use tidal generation
iirc the 80s scheme had ebb and flood generation but a later plan used ebb only
and lots of tricks are possible to boost storage to maximise peaktime generation

on P1 of this thread I gave the link to the latest Bristol Channel thinking (refuting Bondi)

there was an official report about 6 months ago (mostly on the Swansea Tidal Lagoon I assume)
I have never seen mention of Tidal Lagoons and Severn Barrage not being mutually exclusive - maybe that's in the report

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strad
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Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

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The I.P.C.C. got caught lying about their numbers and how they got them.
I'm not about to get into a debate with people who have bought climate change hook line and sinker. The media and the I.P.C.C. are far too large and powerful to try and convince people of the other side.
Just know that 88% of the IPCCs climate models failed. That hundreds if not thousands of scientists that were originally signed on to climate change have changed their opinions after further careful studies.
1934 was way hotter than today and that in the last 20 years the worst they can actually come up with is a rise of .04 of one degree Celsius. Hardly a threat to mankind. That they quit talking about polar bears because inside of dying off the numbers are at a high, that ice on the Antarctic is indeed shrinking on the east side but growing on the west.
Then go check what percentage CO2 represents in our atmosphere.
We have been sold a bill of goods.
It's tough to get the real facts because the by their own admission the I.P.C.C. have moved heaven and earth to block opposing papers from being published and blackballed any scientist that dares go against them.
But you're free to believe in whatever you want.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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Andres125sx
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Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

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strad wrote:
27 Jun 2018, 01:42
The I.P.C.C. got caught lying about their numbers and how they got them.
And, let me do a wild guess, you instantly did assume they´re wrong with anything they say, right? :P
strad wrote:
27 Jun 2018, 01:42
I'm not about to get into a debate with people who have bought...
I didn´t buy anything, I see it daily, spring and autoom have almost disappear, temperatures are more extreme, weather too, here is Spain we have always had very soft weather with no floodings, no big storms, hail was very rare.... all that have changed, now we see all that several times per year.

I´m construction engineer and here drainages are not prepared for current tropical rains, wich means we see floodings weekly when it´s raining. That´s happening because now weather is more extreme, unlike few decades ago when it was a lot more constant so drainages didn´t need to be sized for stormy rains

In agriculture now it´s needed to protect some plants from direct sunlight, because radiation levels are higher than ever and some species start to get burnt by direct sunlight


But I do prefer to not get into a debate with people who have bought the poor excuses from big companies to deny the obvious. I have eyes on my face, that´s enough for me :P
strad wrote:
27 Jun 2018, 01:42
But you're free to believe in whatever you want.
Indeed. But that´s part of the problem, when people is free to believe in whatever they want, and it´s difficult to notice who´s lying, most people will buy the argument wich is better for himself, and that obviously is climate change is a lie and I don´t need to do any sacrifize, even if we all know some BIG companies have been lying and hidding facts for decades to not decrease their income :roll:

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strad
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Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

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I don't doubt there has been some change in weather patterns but not for a minute that it is man or co2 induced.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Greg Locock
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Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

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Anyone who routinely flies in a bizjet is demonstrating by their actions that they personally don't think that the much exaggerated anthropogenic global warming hypothesis applies to them. Likewise, but to a slightly lesser extent, if they routinely fly to conferences several times a year instead of videoconferencing.

So, discount what any of those people say on the subject if they are trying to persuade you in favor of the chicken little theory.

Incidentally, if anybody tries the argument from authority on you, that 97% of scientists agree with catastrophic AGW hypothesis, that study had many flaws in it, and the actual question was 'do you agree that the majority of the warming since 1950 was manmade?'. Oddly, when I worked out the figures I actually agreed, but I used a climate sensitivity of 1 degree C per doubling of CO2, but using that there is not enough fossil fuel under the ground to burn to get to 1200 ppm, which is what you'd need to reach their very arbitrary and not convincing 2 deg C of warming.

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Andres125sx
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Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

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strad wrote:
27 Jun 2018, 22:07
I don't doubt there has been some change in weather patterns but not for a minute that it is man or co2 induced.
Changes in weather patterns are always very slow, not something a single person (generation) can notice in half his life


Anycase, do you really need an unquestionable evidence that burning fuel all around the world, constantly, non stop, from millions cars, millions planes, millions boats, millions oil boilers, and millions industries, for decades and decades, is not affecting the atmosphere?

Do you really think the weather pattern changes you´ve also noticed are just a coincidence?

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Big Tea
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Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

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Andres125sx wrote:
28 Jun 2018, 09:01
strad wrote:
27 Jun 2018, 22:07
I don't doubt there has been some change in weather patterns but not for a minute that it is man or co2 induced.
Changes in weather patterns are always very slow, not something a single person (generation) can notice in half his life


Anycase, do you really need an unquestionable evidence that burning fuel all around the world, constantly, non stop, from millions cars, millions planes, millions boats, millions oil boilers, and millions industries, for decades and decades, is not affecting the atmosphere?

Do you really think the weather pattern changes you´ve also noticed are just a coincidence?
That is really 2 different questions.

The second part would probably get agreement from 99.999% of the population of the world
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

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regarding climate modelling ......
the greenhouse effect saturates
(the saturation CO2 level is influenced by other constituents but a likely value is around 550 ppm)
greater CO2 levels cannot produce greater warming - this is of course supressed by greenist/warmist control of education
(and we know when there was 1200 ppm the Earth's temperature was not high)

BP (UK ?) is to buy EV charging company Chargemaster, Shell having already bought NewMotion
to charge EVs (we are told) with renewable electricity
so (we must assume) the charging will only work at times when renewable electricity is available
the prediction is for 13 million UK EVs by 2040 - this is 100x the present level

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strad
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Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

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In the middle ages it was much warmer and during the Roman era as well.
CO2 is good. It makes plants grow and the plants then produce oxygen.
There has been a noted increase in solar activity that may account for some and also the tilting of the earth on it's axis.
The I.P.C.C. has been totally discredited.
C.R.U. (climate research unit) director
Phil Jones wrote in an email that he would keep papers questioning letters (from noted scientists) questioning the connection between human activity and global warming out of the inter governmental report even if we have to redefine what the peer review literature is. In another he and the infamous Michael Mann discuss blackballing a certain journal because the editor was will to publish opposing papers.
In e-mail 1897 after Phil Jones admits deleting material the head warmist from the U.E.A. David Palmer warns " Phil, you must be very careful about deleting material, more particularly when you delete it".
In 2000 Phil went to a conference in Tenerife on solar variability held by solar scientists and found that many in the solar terrestrial scientists "seem totally convinced the solar variability and output changes can account for the the observed changes we are seeing".
When pressed Phil Jones admits in yet another e-mail that "this (warming)is all based on gut feeling, not science.
I could go on about how their idea of peer review is to have on warmist review the work of another so that naturally he agrees with the others work. A small clique all agreeing and no real review.
When this scandal broke the global warming establishment led by the U.N. (I.P.C.C.), Media and academia went into move along, nothing to see here mode. All the investigation that followed were obvious in their effort to restore credibility to the U.N..
The global warming industry investigated itself and exonerated itself with the predetermined goal of saying that climategate was much ado about nothing.
.
There is tons more that shows that global warming as put forth by the I.P.C.C. is a self serving farce.
They deleted findings that didn't support their findings and lied about others.
They even changed the numbers about past temperatures to suit their desired findings when the real numbers didn't.
It's hard to find the real story because they so fully controlled the media and papers available.
Rex Murphy of Canadian Broadcasting summed it up this way: "Climate gate pulls back the curtain on a scene of pettiness and turf protection, manipulation. Defiance of freedom of information, lost or destroyed data, and attempts to blacklist critics or skeptics of the global warming cause. "Science and advocacy have gone to bed together and both have had a good time".
The I.P.C.C. and the U.N. have been shown to be a lobbying organization portraying itself as a science panel.
.
Look if they failed to find that CO2 was the problem they would no longer have a reason to study it or to be in charge of offering solutions.
That would have killed a lot of peoples cash cow. I think it was Phil Jones got 19 million in a year to do research with his predetermined outcome. :wtf:
There is so much more. However if you try to find it, instead you'll find almost totally denials from the warmists.
Google it and all you'll get is stories attacking the skeptics and denying climate gate.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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DiogoBrand
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Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

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strad wrote:
28 Jun 2018, 21:36
In the middle ages it was much warmer and during the Roman era as well.
CO2 is good. It makes plants grow and the plants then produce oxygen.
There has been a noted increase in solar activity that may account for some and also the tilting of the earth on it's axis.
The I.P.C.C. has been totally discredited.
C.R.U. (climate research unit) director
Phil Jones wrote in an email that he would keep papers questioning letters (from noted scientists) questioning the connection between human activity and global warming out of the inter governmental report even if we have to redefine what the peer review literature is. In another he and the infamous Michael Mann discuss blackballing a certain journal because the editor was will to publish opposing papers.
In e-mail 1897 after Phil Jones admits deleting material the head warmist from the U.E.A. David Palmer warns " Phil, you must be very careful about deleting material, more particularly when you delete it".
In 2000 Phil went to a conference in Tenerife on solar variability held by solar scientists and found that many in the solar terrestrial scientists "seem totally convinced the solar variability and output changes can account for the the observed changes we are seeing".
When pressed Phil Jones admits in yet another e-mail that "this (warming)is all based on gut feeling, not science.
I could go on about how their idea of peer review is to have on warmist review the work of another so that naturally he agrees with the others work. A small clique all agreeing and no real review.
When this scandal broke the global warming establishment led by the U.N. (I.P.C.C.), Media and academia went into move along, nothing to see here mode. All the investigation that followed were obvious in their effort to restore credibility to the U.N..
The global warming industry investigated itself and exonerated itself with the predetermined goal of saying that climategate was much ado about nothing.
.
There is tons more that shows that global warming as put forth by the I.P.C.C. is a self serving farce.
They deleted findings that didn't support their findings and lied about others.
They even changed the numbers about past temperatures to suit their desired findings when the real numbers didn't.
It's hard to find the real story because they so fully controlled the media and papers available.
Rex Murphy of Canadian Broadcasting summed it up this way: "Climate gate pulls back the curtain on a scene of pettiness and turf protection, manipulation. Defiance of freedom of information, lost or destroyed data, and attempts to blacklist critics or skeptics of the global warming cause. "Science and advocacy have gone to bed together and both have had a good time".
The I.P.C.C. and the U.N. have been shown to be a lobbying organization portraying itself as a science panel.
.
Look if they failed to find that CO2 was the problem they would no longer have a reason to study it or to be in charge of offering solutions.
That would have killed a lot of peoples cash cow. I think it was Phil Jones got 19 million in a year to do research with his predetermined outcome. :wtf:
There is so much more. However if you try to find it, instead you'll find almost totally denials from the warmists.
Google it and all you'll get is stories attacking the skeptics and denying climate gate.
Even if the rise in temperatures is completely caused by humans, I honestly don't get why increasing the average temperature on earth by 3 degrees or something like that over 100 years is such a catastrophe, and I tried really hard to find a reason for it.

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Big Tea
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Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

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DiogoBrand wrote:
28 Jun 2018, 22:17
Can anyone else explain why it is so abominable to use Diesel and Gasoline on road vehicles, while for trains, ships and even electric energy, which pollute wayyy more, they're ok?
Seriously, people that think that moving to all electric vehicles will make any difference to man-made emissions should be tied to a pole and stoned to death.
I think the 'hype' is because cars produce all those end of the world nanos in the cities, where 'Real' people live.
Thats Real people like reporters and governments and things, so it is obviously far more important than places where 'other' people live. :twisted:

Like 1956 clean air act in London. All the coal had to have the 'bad bits' burned off out in the country and brought in as coke or smokeless
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

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re the warm 'climate-apparent' in NW Europe ie the medieval warm period and Roman times ....
various natural samplings show a warming cycle of iirc about 900 years periodicity (traceable back 8000 years)
coincident with a planetary motion cycle wherein the big planets when close together and perturb the sun's orbit (yes orbit)

no doubt the warmist scientists are sincere
and their lies and bias and falsification of evidence do not make their conclusion wrong
but sincerity doctrines 'those who are not with us are against us' and 'the ends justify the means' don't have a good record

our leaders love this stuff - the planting of fear and guilt into the population helps the leadership to maintain its position

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Big Tea
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Re: UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

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How many have read the Michal Crichton Book, state of fear?
It is a complete and self admitted fiction, but an excellent book with lots of good research in, but the point he makes is
that governments need a boogie man and warming was a convenient replacement for the nuclear threat.

Give us something to be concerned about or we may start asking questions elsewhere, and wanting to know where the money is spent

( I personally include much of the Terrorism threat here too)
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.