General Honda F1 Topic

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Mogster
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Honda's flirtations with team ownership have never turned out well, they’ve had success as an engine supplier.

I’d be surprised if Honda went down the team ownership route again unless it was re-branding an existing successful outfit, RBR? The benefits of team ownership are obvious, the benefits of engine supply alone less so. Honda must be regretting taking a step back from F1 now I strongly suspect.

It would be interesting to know if RBR/Porsche have signed anything yet. Increasingly VAG seem to be being pushed into the cold…

NL_Fer
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ispano6 wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:09 am
I doubt Honda made an offer to buy out RedBull, that just sounds way off the mark. Click bait, probably.

If I were Honda I would team up with Haas or Andretti, use Dallara chassis and perhaps use RedBull gearboxes. Certainly not spend billions to buy out a team. Participation would be to develop their staff. They have plenty other things they are focusing on like nanotech, next generation batteries, evtol craft, and space propulsion.
Yeah but Andretti isn’t really much at the moment. Maybe if they buy Alpine, it still is a British operation mostly and has good momentum to get to the top (with allot of investing offcourse). And they are pretty downhill from the non-technical parts, Renault probably wants out at some point.

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Big Tea
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Mogster wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:34 am
Honda's flirtations with team ownership have never turned out well, they’ve had success as an engine supplier.

I’d be surprised if Honda went down the team ownership route again unless it was re-branding an existing successful outfit, RBR? The benefits of team ownership are obvious, the benefits of engine supply alone less so. Honda must be regretting taking a step back from F1 now I strongly suspect.

It would be interesting to know if RBR/Porsche have signed anything yet. Increasingly VAG seem to be being pushed into the cold…
Honda say they are in it to learn about engines, so maybe they are not that bothered about branding on cars?
Anyone who would be interested knows what engine is in where and it can still be used in advertising, such as the impossible dream add, which I thought was brill.

The main sponsors want their colour, but as long a a Honda 'badge' on the nose and name is on the wing, that is probably the 3rd best brand recognition in F1 ATM. Red obviously Ferrari, Inios, cos its in big letters and Haas cos its also in big letters, but they are on air less so I put them 4th.

AM. drab and uninteresting, Mclaren recognisable but they are not selling Mclaren, Alpine a riot of colour that means nothing unless you already know its an Alpine AT? I never notice it


Edit not including RBR as its the same car
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JordanMugen
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Big Tea wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:11 am
The main sponsors want their colour, but as long a a Honda 'badge' on the nose and name is on the wing, that is probably the 3rd best brand recognition in F1 ATM.
Red Bull already signed up ByBit on a three-year deal, Honda would have to buy that out if they want to appear on the rear wing of Red Bull (no such issues for AlphaTauri who didn't find any replacement sponsors). I can expect Honda to reappear on the nose and around the cockpit of the Red Bull however for 2023 (or even after the summer break), maybe Honda will buy out Pokerstars signage (then again the Honda way would be to not interfere with existing deals and just squeeze the Honda decals on somewhere else).

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Big Tea
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JordanMugen wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:20 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:11 am
The main sponsors want their colour, but as long a a Honda 'badge' on the nose and name is on the wing, that is probably the 3rd best brand recognition in F1 ATM.
Red Bull already signed up ByBit on a three-year deal, Honda would have to buy that out if they want to appear on the rear wing of Red Bull (no such issues for AlphaTauri who didn't find any replacement sponsors). I can expect Honda to reappear on the nose and around the cockpit of the Red Bull however for 2023 (or even after the summer break), maybe Honda will buy out Pokerstars signage (then again the Honda way would be to not interfere with existing deals and just squeeze the Honda decals on somewhere else).
The advantage Honda have is their logo. it could fit just about anywhere and still be instantly recognisable.
The word 'HONDA' across the wing was nice, but your brains tells you the same when you see the badge on the nose.
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ispano6
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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NL_Fer wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:04 am
ispano6 wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:09 am
I doubt Honda made an offer to buy out RedBull, that just sounds way off the mark. Click bait, probably.

If I were Honda I would team up with Haas or Andretti, use Dallara chassis and perhaps use RedBull gearboxes. Certainly not spend billions to buy out a team. Participation would be to develop their staff. They have plenty other things they are focusing on like nanotech, next generation batteries, evtol craft, and space propulsion.
Yeah but Andretti isn’t really much at the moment. Maybe if they buy Alpine, it still is a British operation mostly and has good momentum to get to the top (with allot of investing offcourse). And they are pretty downhill from the non-technical parts, Renault probably wants out at some point.
I think even AmeHon would support Andretti Haas Honda team, has a good ring to it. Andretti and Haas could use Honda's new windtunnel and Honda would be keen to apply HRI resources to the project. Maybe call the team Andretti Haas Acura even.

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Yamamoto wrote a book that will release in October. Maybe we'll finally get some proper behind the scenes dirt during the McLaren partnership 😆

In this book, what exactly happened in the process of returning from the rock bottom to the top of the 4th Honda F1, and what decisions were made there.

From the truth that is revealed for the first time, Masashi Yamamoto's idea of what kind of decision led to victory in it unfolds in a stark way.

mzso
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chrisc90 wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:47 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:05 pm
Honda, as much a they've have done for RB, have a worryingly unstable outlook. RB would be fools to give them full ownership. A small stake sure, but not enough for the Japanese bosses to throw away the team on a whim as they've been known to do.
Cant see RB ever 'throwing away' their F1 arm. Just look at the Red Bull sports teams worldwide in all different areas.

From football, e-sports even down to soap box racing....RB are never ever going to remove their name from F1.


https://interestingfootball.com/red-bul ... rge%20tops.
I wonder why Alpha Tauri never comes up. RB would be glad to sell them. Only Honda was fool enough to sell a winning team, I don't think that will ever happen again.

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Mogster
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Horner has said repeatedly that TR/AT is a money pit. I remember similar comments when Wolff wanted DAG to buy Manor.

mzso
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Mogster wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:07 am
Horner has said repeatedly that TR/AT is a money pit. I remember similar comments when Wolff wanted DAG to buy Manor.
Not so much anymore since the cost cap. And it was only one because they were always a designated B-team. Fit for bringing in new drivers and experimenting with.

mzso
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Bill wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:38 pm
Honda are first and foremost an engine company ,the world biggest maybe they dont want to do trial and tribulation on car side,they would rather focus their energies on pu
Strangely enough they moving towards the direction of electric motors.

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etusch
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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mzso wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:56 pm
Bill wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:38 pm
Honda are first and foremost an engine company ,the world biggest maybe they dont want to do trial and tribulation on car side,they would rather focus their energies on pu
Strangely enough they moving towards the direction of electric motors.
They are in the same time generator producer.
In the other hand, mazda believes still way to go with ice's, toyota work on hydrogen engines and at next race, they will run a hydrogen fuel powered wrc car.
My opinion is; ice engines will be there always. Countries which put deadline for ice's like 2035 etc are just stupid things.

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JordanMugen
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etusch wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:55 pm
Countries which put deadline for ice's like 2035 etc are just stupid things.
No one can predict the future, so we will see! For now, the best EVs seem to be made by start-ups and not encumbered legacy ICE automakers. We will how many ICE auto makers survive the transition, if there is a transition.

You might be right and ICE vehicles may still be common on the roads in 2065, but it doesn't seem like it is going that way IMO. I'm more inclined to think that 50% of the personal vehicle fleet will be EV by 2045 (in 2022, EVs make up less than 1% of personal motor vehicles in most countries) and 99% of the personal vehicle fleet will be EV by 2065.

In 2065, even if legal to sell brand new road-going ICE vehicles (as opposed to niche racing cars), it is likely that motorists won't be interested in buying them as petrol may be both extremely difficult to find and extremely expensive by then.

Honda (and Toyota and Subaru and Mazda etc) are late to the game of full EVs but maybe they can catch up. Even though the Nissan Leaf was one of the first modern-day mass-produced EVs, Nissan hasn't really taken a leading market position and Nissan's EV portfolio and market status seems outdone by Tesla somehow.

Bill
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you are right no one can can predict the future .if you want to know the future of ice look at europe energy policy they wanted to phase out coal and use more wind mill,now the geopolitic of russia and unexpected weather events has forced them to use even more coal.it will be market reality and general population not ideology of few rich people that will determine the future of cars.

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Big Tea
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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JordanMugen wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:51 am
etusch wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:55 pm
Countries which put deadline for ice's like 2035 etc are just stupid things.
No one can predict the future, so we will see! For now, the best EVs seem to be made by start-ups and not encumbered legacy ICE automakers. We will how many ICE auto makers survive the transition, if there is a transition.

You might be right and ICE vehicles may still be common on the roads in 2065, but it doesn't seem like it is going that way IMO. I'm more inclined to think that 50% of the personal vehicle fleet will be EV by 2045 (in 2022, EVs make up less than 1% of personal motor vehicles in most countries) and 99% of the personal vehicle fleet will be EV by 2065.

In 2065, even if legal to sell brand new road-going ICE vehicles (as opposed to niche racing cars), it is likely that motorists won't be interested in buying them as petrol may be both extremely difficult to find and extremely expensive by then.

Honda (and Toyota and Subaru and Mazda etc) are late to the game of full EVs but maybe they can catch up. Even though the Nissan Leaf was one of the first modern-day mass-produced EVs, Nissan hasn't really taken a leading market position and Nissan's EV portfolio and market status seems outdone by Tesla somehow.
As I have previously said, I can not believe anyone who has driven a EV long enough to get used to it would ever want to go back to ICE driven. Dis-counting the charging inconvenience, which was similar in the early days of ICE cars needing a few cans in the garage in case the Ironmonger (hardware) was not open and you need to go somewhere.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.