Exactly! It's a misnomer to think the sidewall is reduced by half. With bigger wheels, it has expanded. Under load though, how much of a pain this would be for the suspension travel, remains to be seen. Heat dissipation shouldn't be as big an issue due relatively less space between the wheel and the inner area of the tyre. It could also be a a pain if the tyres are unable to keep temperature, unless the oft under performer Pirelli has managed to widen the working range of the compounds. Heat transfer from brakes could potentially be a headache as the spacing between the brakes and the rim is bigger. It would potentially mean less heat transfer from brakes to tyres, causing tyre warm up issues. Alternatively, due to larger brakes with bigger wheels, the brake performance would be much greater, inducing a lot more load to heat up. It remains to be seen how all of this is going to affect driver and car performance.
I am a bit surprise this nice discussion ended in a team thread.Ryar wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:45 amExactly! It's a misnomer to think the sidewall is reduced by half. With bigger wheels, it has expanded. Under load though, how much of a pain this would be for the suspension travel, remains to be seen. Heat dissipation shouldn't be as big an issue due relatively less space between the wheel and the inner area of the tyre. It could also be a a pain if the tyres are unable to keep temperature, unless the oft under performer Pirelli has managed to widen the working range of the compounds. Heat transfer from brakes could potentially be a headache as the spacing between the brakes and the rim is bigger. It would potentially mean less heat transfer from brakes to tyres, causing tyre warm up issues. Alternatively, due to larger brakes with bigger wheels, the brake performance would be much greater, inducing a lot more load to heat up. It remains to be seen how all of this is going to affect driver and car performance.
It's not about what they look like, it's the specific designs and research into heat transfer that may be useful somewhere else. Now it's just a standard wheel with nothing of interest to it.Stu wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:21 pmIt really doesn’t matter much what they look like, there will be full wheel covers, maybe with LED’sSiLo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:16 pmI don't like them switching to one supplier, even if we don't see those wheels on road cars, that kind of research may trickle down into some other industry.ringo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:06 pm
That's what I like about Ferrari. They know how to bring the intrigue pre season. I am really looking forward to that car. They say 2017 is their inspiration, knowing they can challenge the top team with being very aggressive with design and innovation.
Mercedes I know will be very strong, they know how to look on themselves and improve. Tyre warm up may still remain their weakness, but with ground effect cars that may just dissapear.
Aslo BBS wheels will be the standard wheel for F-1. No more custom tyre warmup wheels from the other teams it appears. Just 1 wheel. Maybe BBS will offer some different styles to break up the monotony.
Probably off topic, my point was more that it's sad another part has been made spec, not whether its not possible, or they will be hidden behind a cover. I'll stop there so we can get back on topic.
The ‘spring’ of the tyres is controlled by a combination of sidewall depth, tyre pressure & tyre volume. There is (approximately) a 5% reduction in volume with the new front tyres and only a 1% reduction at the rear.PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:22 pmThat is a significant amount of difference if you imagine the side wall as a spring. One and a half in more worth of air/rubber spring.
Out of those three factors how much of the spring rate do you suspect the volume acount for? We would have to have an idea of this before we chose a position or direction.Stu wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:35 amThe ‘spring’ of the tyres is controlled by a combination of sidewall depth, tyre pressure & tyre volume. There is (approximately) a 5% reduction in volume with the new front tyres and only a 1% reduction at the rear.PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:22 pmThat is a significant amount of difference if you imagine the side wall as a spring. One and a half in more worth of air/rubber spring.
This is why the Pirelli control of minimum tyre pressures has such an effect.
The teams pushed to have the taller sidewalls which will mean, as you say, that the spring rate of these new tyre will be very similar to the 13”. Add to that the increased mass and the removal of inerters etc., which were used to help control the relatively undamped unsprung elements, and I think we might see some problems with kerb riding and maybe some porpoising.Stu wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:35 amThe ‘spring’ of the tyres is controlled by a combination of sidewall depth, tyre pressure & tyre volume. There is (approximately) a 5% reduction in volume with the new front tyres and only a 1% reduction at the rear.PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:22 pmThat is a significant amount of difference if you imagine the side wall as a spring. One and a half in more worth of air/rubber spring.
This is why the Pirelli control of minimum tyre pressures has such an effect.
In addition, the following systems or configurations are not permitted:
a. Anyresponseofthesuspensionelementstobodyaccelerationsand/orangular acceleration of the rockers (e.g. any inerters, mass dampers, acceleration-sensitive valves in the dampers).
it's almost as if the teams knew what they were doing ....henry wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 9:54 amThe teams pushed to have the taller sidewalls which will mean, as you say, that the spring rate of these new tyre will be very similar to the 13”. Add to that the increased mass and the removal of inerters etc., which were used to help control the relatively undamped unsprung elements, and I think we might see some problems with kerb riding and maybe some porpoising.Stu wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:35 amThe ‘spring’ of the tyres is controlled by a combination of sidewall depth, tyre pressure & tyre volume. There is (approximately) a 5% reduction in volume with the new front tyres and only a 1% reduction at the rear.....PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:22 pmThat is a significant amount of difference if you imagine the side wall as a spring. One and a half in more worth of air/rubber spring.
The rules seem to have written to explicitly make the suspension less capable. For example:In addition, the following systems or configurations are not permitted:
a. Any response of the suspension elements to body accelerations and/or angular acceleration of the rockers (e.g. any inerters, mass dampers, acceleration-sensitive valves in the dampers).
That will depend on whose currently leading the time sheet, I'm afraid.cooken wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 2:09 pmA major factor in all this will be how well the construction holds up for a given pressure. I'd love to be wrong, but I have a bad feeling that Pirelli yet again will have underestimated the rate of development from the teams, and we will see the same old story play out with pressures ratcheting up through the season. If so it will wreak havoc on suspension designs and tyre management.
There's always a first, maybe Pirelli won't miscalculate for once.