2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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Edax wrote:
02 Sep 2018, 23:22

Apparenly the first chicane. :roll: Vettel does the exact same thing to Hamilton when they enter the corner. In fact Hamilton has two wheels over the white line and there is not much but a hair between their front tires.

But I do agree, squeezing an opponent before a corner is fair, but these actions were too much. A cars width should be measured between the car and the inside of the white line, not whatever driveable surface is out there. So the penalty is OK.

But I also can understand. The Red Bull is currently in no mans land, 30 seconds adrift of the next car. Ves could land a comfortable fifth in any race, with the engine tuned down. But you would only see the car at the start and in the result table.

Smart thing, points wise, would have been to have Bottas pass on lap 5 and concentrate on fending of vettel. But by taking the fight to Mercedes, it may have cost him 2 points, but gained RB 30 mins of tv coverage, and showed his possible future (2020) employer Mercedes, that he has the measure on Bottas. But in order to be able to do that he has to take everything out of the car and the rules there is, since the car is not quick enough.
You can only squeeze if the driver is slightly behind, not in the braking zone and you MUST leave enough space to hold a cars width AND you must show no intent to cause a collision.

verstappen broke all those requirements.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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NathanOlder wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 01:47
I think its time the mods do something about this guy. He's now openly calling for drivers to put other drivers in the wall.
I thinks he's a cousin of max or his sister's boyfriend or something.
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Sierra117
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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I honestly think even if Vettel were in P1, it would be very close to the finish. The tow effect was great and Merc's pace was excellent. The car performs great on high-speed tracks like Silverstone and Monza. I don't know if Hamilton would or wouldn't be able to overtake Vettel, but there would definitely be back and forth and it would be very close. Merc has done a great job with managing tyres throughout this season as evident how Lewis could keep the tyres alive whilst being in Kimi's dirty air for so long.

Singapore would probably be the odd one, to see if Merc has improved in low-speed stuff, though Spa kinda showed it's still not ideal. It would be interesting to see how Ferrari v RedBull goes though as they like those kinds of tracks. Then again, Ferrari has a longer wheelbase now, so maybe RB can pip Ferrari.
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langedweil
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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We have a near tantalizing race this afternoon with Ham snatching out a non-expected win in Ferrari’s backyard, but still the focus of many lies with Max (or rather Bottas) banging wheels.
I really just don’t get that frustration ...

Bottas not able to pass with a car that’s potentially 1.5s quicker resulting in a near impossible move, gets rewarded for not having any racecraft (left). Hell, half the field would be faster in that car (even Stroll) and use it for proper racing.
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sprint car76
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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You really believe that? Max ran him off the race track and deserved the penalty. Bottas didn't attempt a pass on him after he knew max was getting a penalty, smart. Max should have let him by after he knew he was getting a penalty so he could keep the gap to vettle. Both vettle and max need to learn about race craft.

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turbof1
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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Locked until we can get a handle on this. Expect repercusions to whomever misbehaved.
#AeroFrodo

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turbof1
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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Se we had to clean out a lot of posts. People sure are keen to take it close to the edge of what is allowed, some went slightly beyond and a couple really went way too far.

Criticism to what a driver did is ok, but it has to stay objective, neutral and on topic, keeping the discussing to what happened during the race. A lot of people went too personal, trying to put down drivers as not being bright of mind, or as a worse generation. Or as second fiddle. Whatever happens, you have to keep a certain respect to the driver involved and not decent into diespicable behaviour. Be a gentleman/gentlewoman!

For the record, most of you did show a decent behaviour while giving criticism. So thank you for that. Staying on point and listening to one another, instead of trying to push your opinion through based on arguments that have no relevancy, will get you much further.
#AeroFrodo

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Juzh
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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here's hulk overtaking gasly at 366 kmh by dumping almost the entire battery on the main straight. 366 is the highest we've seen in monza since the V10 days I believe.

https://streamable.com/mjibl

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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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f1316 wrote:
02 Sep 2018, 23:49
For all that the drivers played their part - and I do think Hamilton is driving very well, taking his chances, whereas Seb is too often taking unnecessary risks - Ferrari really are to blame for how they’re not maximising team decisions this year; everyone says they favour their lead driver anyway, but they actually fail to do so effectively time and again this year, with the evidence once again shown today that Kimi just isn’t capable of leading the Ferrari charge against Hamilton.

Martin Brundle says it best:

“Martin Brundle: "I think Ferrari blew it yesterday because they should have slipstreamed Vettel on to pole. Mercedes have already shown they are prepared to play the team game back in Hockenheim, and again today. It should have been Vettel on pole and Raikkonen defending him, they had it covered.

"I can't help but feel they are throwing it away at Ferrari.

"If we go back to Hockenheim they really could have let Vettel past Raikkonen then as well."
+1

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henry
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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Juzh wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 09:21
here's hulk overtaking gasly at 366 kmh by dumping almost the entire battery on the main straight. 366 is the highest we've seen in monza since the V10 days I believe.

https://streamable.com/mjibl
https://streamable.com/mjibl
I take it you are referring to the vertical bar on the left of the Renault display?

He is at full throttle for approximately 10 seconds after parabolica. So it’s unlikely he consumed more than about 2MJ, probably much less.

So I don’t think the bar is full scale ES SOC, nor is it ES>K which would reset for the new lap. So I wonder what it’s showing. Whatever it is he used most of it during that pass.
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Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

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iotar__
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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Haas fraud started in qualifying and for those that think it's all ok :arrow: . Last race of the season, Vet/Ham equal on points, first q3 run Vet on pole, Ham 10th. Second run Vettel follows Hamilton and does Alonso Magnussen. Charlie Whiting laughs, compares penalties and says it's all good fun. Right? Keep lying to yourself :roll: .

As for Renault - they advocate costly unlimited development, put $ into upgrade and don't put it in their car because of costs. Perfect sense F1. They fail and FIA bail them out anyway so why bother? Just like Ferrari at Monza. Any semi-competent driver, +50% of the current field, would have won without sweating.

sosic2121
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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henry wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 09:35
Juzh wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 09:21
here's hulk overtaking gasly at 366 kmh by dumping almost the entire battery on the main straight. 366 is the highest we've seen in monza since the V10 days I believe.

https://streamable.com/mjibl
https://streamable.com/mjibl
I take it you are referring to the vertical bar on the left of the Renault display?

He is at full throttle for approximately 10 seconds after parabolica. So it’s unlikely he consumed more than about 2MJ, probably much less.

So I don’t think the bar is full scale ES SOC, nor is it ES>K which would reset for the new lap. So I wonder what it’s showing. Whatever it is he used most of it during that pass.
It seems it's going up while breaking.

Hulk goes flat out for 15s.
If he was using 180kw(overtake button) on the main straight, that's 2.7MJ.
It seems battery bar(?) was depleting faster on main straight then it was before parabolica.
Last edited by sosic2121 on 03 Sep 2018, 10:08, edited 1 time in total.

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turbof1
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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iotar__ wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 09:39
Haas fraud started in qualifying and for those that think it's all ok :arrow: . Last race of the season, Vet/Ham equal on points, first q3 run Vet on pole, Ham 10th. Second run Vettel follows Hamilton and does Alonso Magnussen. Charlie Whiting laughs, compares penalties and says it's all good fun. Right? Keep lying to yourself :roll: .

As for Renault - they advocate costly unlimited development, put $ into upgrade and don't put it in their car because of costs. Perfect sense F1. They fail and FIA bail them out anyway so why bother? Just like Ferrari at Monza. Any semi-competent driver, +50% of the current field, would have won without sweating.
Maybe you should rewrite that. A little bit less provoking and less agressive would be nice. Thank you.
#AeroFrodo

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Moanlower
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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ringo wrote:
02 Sep 2018, 19:15
Andres125sx wrote:
02 Sep 2018, 19:14
Brake Horse Power wrote:
02 Sep 2018, 18:58
I agreed watching the race Max deserved the penalty, however i can understand his explanation. He just basically says he left enough space for Bottas, considering the green stuff next to the tarmac is part of the track. Bottas didn't fully ride on the green stuff, and therefor Bottas caused the collision. Look at the on board of Bottas in the movie. I think it is in some way brilliant by pushing the rules to the limit..

https://streamable.com/s/n9xvl/pxwrcg

https://streamable.com/s/n9xvl/pxwrcg
The green stuff is not tarmac, so grip is different. If a car goes over the green stuff with left wheels under braking, that could easily cause a spin and crash.

Bottas went to the left all he could safely, there was no need to assume the risk of braking on the green stuff, there was more than enough space. But Max decided to not let him enough space. Not a surprise I´m afraid #-o


Well deserved penalty for Verstappen
The track limits is the white line, not the grass. So Bottas went as far as he could. Verstappen squeezed him too much.
Even so, Bottas isn't obliged to move when Max decides to come in on him. Bottas could've stayed in the middle of the track as long as he keeps driving straight and even then Max had no say or reason to run into him.
Losers focus on winners, winners focus on winning.

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henry
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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sosic2121 wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 09:41
henry wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 09:35
Juzh wrote:
03 Sep 2018, 09:21
here's hulk overtaking gasly at 366 kmh by dumping almost the entire battery on the main straight. 366 is the highest we've seen in monza since the V10 days I believe.

https://streamable.com/mjibl
https://streamable.com/mjibl
I take it you are referring to the vertical bar on the left of the Renault display?

He is at full throttle for approximately 10 seconds after parabolica. So it’s unlikely he consumed more than about 2MJ, probably much less.

So I don’t think the bar is full scale ES SOC, nor is it ES>K which would reset for the new lap. So I wonder what it’s showing. Whatever it is he used most of it during that pass.
It seems it's going up while breaking.
Yes it does. By about the 20%? It’s about a 3 second stop so that’s about 360 kJ. Which might suggest full scale is in the region of 2MJ. that would be consistent with the 10second full power if the ES was supplying both K and H.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus