2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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NoDivergence
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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Juzh wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:09 pm
dans79 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:33 pm
I'm note sure Vettel understands how rules and specifically red flags work.

Someone should remind him that you slow down first, then have a look around!

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vett ... g/3198181/
"I think there should be common sense with the rules that we have," said the Ferrari driver. "I think lining out 27.7 seconds precisely as not complying with the rules I think is wrong.


"I think I slowed down, I had a good look around at what was going on. The rules are clear so we know.

"It is the first time we had this in the wet, where the target is a lot slower, so literally you have to stop to 40-50km/h to bring down the delta, which probably I should do next time.

"But in my opinion that is not the right thing. If there is a car right behind you, it might run into you. But it is more important you don't get a penalty."

Vettel said he explained to the stewards that he had seen the red flag when it came out, and he reacted once he had checked there was no danger.

"They [the stewards] were very specific, saying I took 27.7 seconds to slow down," he explained.

"I saw the red flag, I slowed down, I had a look around where the car was potentially stuck in the wall or if there was one around Turn 9 or 10. Then I slowed down significantly to comply with the rules.

"They found it too long. I think it was straightforward.

"On top of it there might have been an issue with the timing, the system. I don't know. So...I slowed down."
Someone should remind dans79 that you have to first understand something you just read before you write nonsense about it.

"I saw the red flag, I slowed down , I had a look around"

and it's quite obvious from the onboard he slows down A LOT. just not to like 40-50 kmh like the ridicioulus rules say he should.
Slowing down is fine and all. But he also accelerated to 170 kph under red flag. Dumb

https://twitter.com/Gianludale27/status ... 5013633026

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Sierra117
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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F1Krof wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:56 pm
Ala Khabib -> ...this is number one bullshit!
Hey, I'm gonna smesh your rules! :lol:
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TAG
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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LeClerc wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:21 pm
Phil wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:18 pm
Yes, i am sure significantly braking is entirely safe in wet conditions...
Come on!

Our last hope of a challenge lost because he couldn't be bothered to slow enough.

As our friend Vettel would say: "Honestly?"
:shock: you were still hoping?
माकडाच्या हाती कोलीत

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LeClerc
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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Maths based hoping 🤪
It is I, LeClerc!

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Juzh
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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NoDivergence wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:03 am
Juzh wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:09 pm
dans79 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:33 pm
I'm note sure Vettel understands how rules and specifically red flags work.

Someone should remind him that you slow down first, then have a look around!

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vett ... g/3198181/

Someone should remind dans79 that you have to first understand something you just read before you write nonsense about it.

"I saw the red flag, I slowed down , I had a look around"

and it's quite obvious from the onboard he slows down A LOT. just not to like 40-50 kmh like the ridicioulus rules say he should.
Slowing down is fine and all. But he also accelerated to 170 kph under red flag. Dumb

https://twitter.com/Gianludale27/status ... 5013633026
Obviously if they determined he was speeding that's a slam dunk. Doesn't mean the rule isn't stupid though. There's literally nothing going on on the part of the track at which he speeds up to 170. 170 is nothing for an f1 car. Vettel said in the wet you have to slow down to ridicioulsly low speeds to be in the clear. Ricciardo got a penalty for similar incident when he was miles away from the actual crash (was it bottas in Q melbourbe?). This rule needs serious revisiting.

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iotar__
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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Juzh wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:47 am
Obviously if they determined he was speeding that's a slam dunk. Doesn't mean the rule isn't stupid though. There's literally nothing going on on the part of the track at which he speeds up to 170. 170 is nothing for an f1 car. Vettel said in the wet you have to slow down to ridicioulsly low speeds to be in the clear. Ricciardo got a penalty for similar incident when he was miles away from the actual crash (was it bottas in Q melbourbe?). This rule needs serious revisiting.
Stupid rule... I don't recall anyone complaining when 5 (?) places grid penalty was given for
- slowing down (yes, slowing down)
- under double-yellows (yes, double yellows, not red)
- in dry conditions (not wet)
LeClerc wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:21 pm
Come on!
Our last hope of a challenge lost because he couldn't be bothered to slow enough.

As our friend Vettel would say: "Honestly?"
You don't understand Vettel showed full commitment to media comedy bit that only "silly" mistakes caused lack of championship challenge in '18 :wink: . Not overall level of performance including not silly at all mistakes.

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turbof1
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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MtthsMlw wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:25 pm
Why not ditch that whole delta thing and tell the drivers to slow down fast but safely and use the pit limiter to drive to the pits :P
I do like the idea of using the pit limiter during red flag conditions. However, if I am correct that is still too fast.

Vettel's logic is also broken btw. He complaints that if he slowed down more he'd risk someone slamming into his rear. Since he was the only one breaking the rule, he'd be the only one at risk slamming into someone else. If everybody sticks to the rule, everybody drives the same speed and nothing will happen.

A red flag should always be respected. It's not acceptable that you arbitrarily slowed down a bit. No you need to slow down to what is asked of you. If it's a different situation with bad visibility conditions and a driver being stuck in his car in the middle of the track, that could lead to a dangerous situation.

The penalty was correct.
#AeroFrodo

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Sieper
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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Of course it was, you could argue that ALL penalties given so far were correct, only some that were not given were incorrect. But still, looking back at images from 2007 only we saw much better battling and way less penalties. Correct and good and great and fantastic as they are I am very unhappy with the whole penalty thing. It needs more leniency but the trouble with that is it will also be more inconsistent. And with that comes outcry these days. So we are stuck with them, it will only get worse. I don’t specifically mean this flag thing, but on track fights for position. And even this flag issue, If it is a local issue (gravel on track) and they have 20 marshalling zones, why not be more lenient If you are still 12 zones or whatever away from the issue.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

timbo
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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turbof1 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:33 am
Vettel's logic is also broken btw. He complaints that if he slowed down more he'd risk someone slamming into his rear. Since he was the only one breaking the rule, he'd be the only one at risk slamming into someone else. If everybody sticks to the rule, everybody drives the same speed and nothing will happen.
Well, he'd seen there were no cars ahead of him, in which situation slowing down gently is safer. On a highway, you would not want to slam the brakes suddenly, especially in the rain or snow.
turbof1 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:33 am
A red flag should always be respected. It's not acceptable that you arbitrarily slowed down a bit. No you need to slow down to what is asked of you. If it's a different situation with bad visibility conditions and a driver being stuck in his car in the middle of the track, that could lead to a dangerous situation.
I wonder how the delta system works. Is there a "cool down time" or you just have to stick to the delta immediately once the warning is out? Depending on where you are and how much you have to slow it might be not easy and safe to slow down.
The other thing is the indication/warnings. I watched the onboard footage with team communications and noticed two things:
- why there is no warning system for the delta on the wheel? There is probably something on the dash, but IMO a simple two (or three) lights system on the wheel (green "you're good", red "you're speeding") would be much easier for a driver to read and stick to. Ocon complained he heard beeps which confused him, I don't think it is a good system if it puts too much stress on the driver who has already a lot of things to manage (engine mods, tyre/brake temps).
- Vettel's race engineer didn't warn him of his speed. They should have GPS and car's telemetry, they must warn driver for such things.
turbof1 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:33 am
The penalty was correct.
I don't argue that. Just noting that if there are too many infringements (two red flags under the rain, two penalties) than the way the rule is enforced or the systems involved should be checked.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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GrandAxe wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:43 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:35 pm
Horner reckons the 3 place penalty for speeding under a red flag is a rubbish rule, and the best way to hurt a driver is to give him a fine. Most of these drivers are millionaires, a fine does not hurt them. A sporting penalty hurts them way more. Stop talking rubbish Horner.
You want a grown man to give up his hobby? :D
:lol:
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astracrazy
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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At the end of the day the rule is the rule and he broke it so he should be punished.

Imo going forward, i have always considered these situtatuons double standards. That goes for anything that requires a delta to be stuck to including VSC. What we are saying is hey there is a dangerous situation on track you need to be aware of, but we also want you to keep looking down at your steering wheel.

I think the pit lane limiter should be used. Although it should be renamed. Under any situation where the driver is required to slow down the button is pressed. Surely with the tech and gps now this would work. Red flag, its pre programmed to # speed. VSC # speed etc. Driver in the pit lane # this speed.

Surely that solves the problem once and for all.

timbo
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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astracrazy wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:40 am
At the end of the day the rule is the rule and he broke it so he should be punished.

Imo going forward, i have always considered these situtatuons double standards. That goes for anything that requires a delta to be stuck to including VSC. What we are saying is hey there is a dangerous situation on track you need to be aware of, but we also want you to keep looking down at your steering wheel.

I think the pit lane limiter should be used. Although it should be renamed. Under any situation where the driver is required to slow down the button is pressed. Surely with the tech and gps now this would work. Red flag, its pre programmed to # speed. VSC # speed etc. Driver in the pit lane # this speed.

Surely that solves the problem once and for all.
I am a bit uncertain on such system. At least there should be a countdown before it kicks in, as I can imagine if the thing kicks in suddenly it may cause a crash itself. But I do agree that the way the rule is enforced is not right.

zac510
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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When I see an incident like red/yellow flag/speeding I'm always reminded of Alonso's accident at Brazil in 2003.

les arcs
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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zac510 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:21 am
When I see an incident like red/yellow flag/speeding I'm always reminded of Alonso's accident at Brazil in 2003.
Yes, he absolutely ignored the waved yellow flags and took a massive hit, luckily there were no marshalls on the track.

I can' remember if he got fined or points but he sure should have.

komninosm
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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2018 will be remembered as the year that completely broke Vettel.
He's been on a dark path of lies since Baku 2017, fueled by the Ferrari (Team and bad behaved fans) addiction and malediction.
Too bad, he could have been a great one. Instead he is going to be remembered as more vile than Schumacher. At least Schumacher got blacked for an entire season and even apologized properly. Vettel is much much worse now.
We can only hope he finds the strength one day to apologize too.