2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Capharol
Capharol
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Joined: 04 Nov 2018, 17:06

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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miguelalvesreis wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 11:28
Capharol wrote:
miguelalvesreis wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 02:08



Their CURRENT championship position?



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well i think aswell it's obvious they will be plumb last on the grid when Melbourne starts, or they must pull off something that might come near a miracle
They are late on the game, that's for sure but, I think we can't, yet, read to much from the times they're posting. Let's wait till end of 2nd test to doom them. They were doing instalation laps and balancing and learning the car. Their times were not much worse then some other teams firts days.

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no matter how you try to twist it, Williams is 2 1/2 days behind, when the other teams did installationlaps on Monday, Williams did them on Wedness afternoon and Thursday morning, all the others were already gathering loads and loads of data on how and where to improve....
AND Williams had only the parts there that were on the car, they couldn't try different Setup, change the aero-packages, and Keep in mind they only have these few testing days, it isn't like in the 80's, 90's where they could test whenever they want to
this means Monday will start the testing for Williams for real, but the time lost can never be really catched up, no matter how you turn and twist it

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Moctecus
144
Joined: 28 Oct 2015, 13:08
Location: Germany

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Sergey Sirotkin on the Williams FW42 reportedly being 2sec slower than its predecessor:
"When I was working on the simulator, it was two seconds slower. But it happened at the very beginning of the work, when the changes in the rules automatically threw everyone backwards. Different technical solutions should have made up for that time, but at this stage in the development of the car, I wasn't working in the simulator anymore."
[From a recent interview with Championat]

Giblet
Giblet
5
Joined: 19 Mar 2007, 01:47
Location: Canada

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Yes they can try different setups. The car is still adjustable.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

muramasa
muramasa
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Joined: 05 Oct 2017, 16:33

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Capharol wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 12:24
miguelalvesreis wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 11:28
Capharol wrote: well i think aswell it's obvious they will be plumb last on the grid when Melbourne starts, or they must pull off something that might come near a miracle
They are late on the game, that's for sure but, I think we can't, yet, read to much from the times they're posting. Let's wait till end of 2nd test to doom them. They were doing instalation laps and balancing and learning the car. Their times were not much worse then some other teams firts days.

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no matter how you try to twist it, Williams is 2 1/2 days behind, when the other teams did installationlaps on Monday, Williams did them on Wedness afternoon and Thursday morning, all the others were already gathering loads and loads of data on how and where to improve....
AND Williams had only the parts there that were on the car, they couldn't try different Setup, change the aero-packages, and Keep in mind they only have these few testing days, it isn't like in the 80's, 90's where they could test whenever they want to
this means Monday will start the testing for Williams for real, but the time lost can never be really catched up, no matter how you turn and twist it
You are just repeating what miguelalvesreis wrote, the poster says they are late and behind and only conducted basic validation runs, but too early to read where they are from times just yet which is the point, he/she is not turning nor twisting anything at all. Meanwhile on the other thread you are saying you cannot read from times, just self contradicting yourself.

miguelalvesreis
miguelalvesreis
16
Joined: 12 May 2012, 13:38

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Twisting? Bit of stretch from you ain't it?

Of course they are late, that's exactly what I've wrote!

Point is, if the car is well born, which we can not know thus far, they will have chance to catch up. There's a long season ahead with huge developments to be made.

Now, if th3y, once again, have fsiled to produce a sound car, then....

That, however, will take a bit more to find out...that's why I mencioned waiting for next test session to see how and if they improve

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Capharol
Capharol
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Joined: 04 Nov 2018, 17:06

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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I guess you mis understood my posting completly
I said "they will be on the back of the grid at Melbourne"
your response "I think we can't, yet, read to much from the times they're posting. Let's wait till end of 2nd test to doom them. "

I doomed them for Melbourne, because they has lost 2 1/2 days of testing that OTHER teams has, and I even explained my point of view


I believe what i write is still english and not chinese or latin….

miguelalvesreis
miguelalvesreis
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Joined: 12 May 2012, 13:38

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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As I stated, with 2 days is still too soon to know!

Still believe that till now we know nothing about their capabilities and wether they'll be at the back of the grid or not!

And both of us are writing in english! Quite a unnecessary comment!

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Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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A car that from simulator work alone is 2 seconds slower compared to the already slowest car on the grid last year.
that same car reportedly fell victim to missed deadlines delaying the car's delivery 2 days late to the party.
a car that then, when delivered and finally running, clearly is botched together in great haste, and is missing parts.
that same car had no possibilities for other aero as it wasn't there.
a car that has an aluminum gearbox to save money, where the rest of the field has carbon, despite being the slowest car on the grid the year before.
that same car is having to deal with an even smaller budget compared to last year, whic halready was troublesome, and delivered the slowest car on the grid.
a car that is under development by paddy lowe, whom now has been bashed into the ground by backstabbing williams leadership, and might even go so far as to replace paddy - especially since their budget isn't too large and paddy isn't cheap - leaving that same car above in the hands of some total unknown, with no idea of development, or how to deal with it properly.
a car that is 8 seconds off the pace of the fastest laps in barcelona testing, and 3,5 in the following day from the fastest lap.

if nothing drastically changes in Williams leadership the coming 4 months, then the team will foil before the last GP. Summer break must see a change in leadership.
Rokit as title sponsor is only for the short term. They're not a company big enough to realistically hand over enough millions to make an impact, neither does Kubica's money.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

paulo_f1
paulo_f1
5
Joined: 15 Oct 2015, 15:34

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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munudeges wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 01:55
paulo_f1 wrote:
21 Feb 2019, 19:53
You can, in that it's a journalists opinion! He, and especially you, don't know what has been said internally or what the process of internal/analysis and action/redress is or will be. The company has said they're investigating it, will be dealing with it and it's not a matter for airing in public at this point.
Ironically, you've perfectly exemplified in one post, why Williams are in the position they are in - utter denial. That inconvenient bottom line of where they are isn't going to be waved away with words. They have sponsors to answer to, and they expect answers, in public alongside their names and logos they have embarrassed.
You have to remember that Paddy Lowe is a director and shareholder at Williams, there is a legal duty of responsibility with Frank, Claire and Paddy....
The stopwatch doesn't care about the fallout from their poorly thought through and badly researched recruitment choices.
As an aside, I find it hilarious that elements of the media and public are baying for blood and encouraging the Williams team to behave in the same comedy Machiavellian way that Ferrari has received untold criticism over the years for by the same journalists and public.
You know what I find more hilarious? Their current championship position. Unless they do something about this now they likely won't survive much beyond this season. Goodness, they had to do something about last season now. There is simply no comparison whatsoever between Ferrari and the utterly desperate situation Williams are in and seem to be so blasé about. The delusion is if they keep coming out with the fighting talk and tweak one or two things they'll be back to winning ways.
Except this is all utter conjecture on your part and simply your vitriolic opinion of the team and how they should behave.

A few points for the hard of thinking: -

1. The sponsors aren't going to want a witch hunt in public, or potential recriminations and legal action between directors, any more than the team management do.

2. The stop watch may not care, but the investors and regulatory authorities do. This means that for a business in Williams position the directors have a statutory legal duty of care to behave in certain way.

3. Of course there is a comparison between Ferrari and Williams, I'm comparing style of management. The Italian Machiavellian way of firing someone prominent, regardless of whether it's their fault or not and having a cull of people without any analysis of the situation has rightly been derided by the UK Motorsport press. It's not something Williams should get into, even if that's what you want them to do.

4. Williams have signed a multi year title deal with Rokit and several other sponsors, they aren't going to go bust because their car is slow this year (not that we know how it will really perform yet).

5. It takes many years to change the course of a teams technical development, especially if you get rid of people, you need to put other good people in place and restructure. Senior personnel take a long time to recruit and often have a period of gardening leave too. The culture and working practices may also need to change. Williams pulled apart and reorganised last year getting rid of several senior people, it was hardly going to improve the situation overnight.

6. You have no idea who is on the recruitment agenda, what their internal investigations are showing, whether Paddy is on the way out etc. The only thing you really know is that they haven't told you and the press what their plans are, there are good reasons for this and they are outlined above.

The best companies plan, analyse and are very strategic, F1 is a business, not a hobby or a sport, short term knee jerk reactions aren't going to help. Luckily they don't have to listen to the opinions and drivel spouted by the keyboard warriors...
Last edited by paulo_f1 on 23 Feb 2019, 13:46, edited 1 time in total.

hibbsie
hibbsie
0
Joined: 03 Mar 2014, 17:59

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Manoah2u wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 18:56

if nothing drastically changes in Williams leadership the coming 4 months, then the team will foil before the last GP. Summer break must see a change in leadership.
Rokit as title sponsor is only for the short term. They're not a company big enough to realistically hand over enough millions to make an impact, neither does Kubica's money.
Such bold statements. Williams will not fold. Do a little digging and you will see they have more potential cash in the team now then they had with Stroll.

The team has strong support, it may even gain investors shortly. Williams as a business is healthy, Williams as a F1 team will struggle but not die. From the outside they have a poor team culture that is deep rooted but not impossible to change.

bill shoe
bill shoe
151
Joined: 19 Nov 2008, 08:18
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Manoah2u wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 18:56
if nothing drastically changes in Williams leadership the coming 4 months, then the team will foil before the last GP.
I predict that if nothing drastically changes in Williams leadership in the coming 4 months, then the team will compete in the last GP.

I define "drastically changes in Williams leadership" to mean Claire and/or Paddy go.

I propose a friendly wager with you on this:

After the last GP of 2019 starts in Abu Dhabi, the loser of this bet must use 10 different self-deprecating emojies in a post that explains in detail why they are inclined to make erroneous predictions.

Accept?

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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oh yes my dear sir, that i definately shall accept!
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

hibbsie
hibbsie
0
Joined: 03 Mar 2014, 17:59

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Latifi is Saputo. A family that has $8 billion more than Stroll and Latifi is who......

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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hibbsie wrote:
22 Feb 2019, 22:13
Latifi is Saputo. A family that has $8 billion more than Stroll and Latifi is who......
if latifi's backers a willing to pump 50 to a 100 million dollars annually into the team
without latifi even racing, then please introduce me to the guy that can accomplish that.

williams is going to need double that to be able to survive into 2020, because of the open sewer
all the money williams has goes into the project. perhaps few enough of it can keep the team
still afloat, like it has been for the past decade. unfortunately, the rot in the team is expanding
that sewer opening further and further.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

hibbsie
hibbsie
0
Joined: 03 Mar 2014, 17:59

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

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Latifi invested $350 million into McLaren cars last year...... so hopefully he will be investing in williams. So to your point yes he can invest in something his son isn't racing in.