2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Big Tea
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Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Marti_EF3 wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 22:42
Wouter wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 21:46
TNTHead wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 20:34
On Dutch television Jos Verstappen commented on the development pace of Red Bull/Honda. He said something along the lines: at the end of this year the gap with the Ferrari en Mercedes should be closed, otherwise next year will be another year of struggling. You could see some growing impatience within the Verstappen team. I cannot disagree.
More about the interview :

Through a Skype conversation in the tv programme Peptalk on Ziggo Sport father Jos looks back on the performance of his son in Russia, and he looks ahead to the remaining races of the season.

It should not take too long before he is going to deliver what we are all hoping for and he can challenge for the world title. “No, that is what we think too”, says the father of Aston Martin Red Bull Racing driver who today celebrated his twenty-second birthday: “We should have been closer, but that is more difficult than we thought. It is very frustrating. In the last races before the summer break it went really well, but after the summer break we did not progress while the other teams did. Max cannot change that, we depend on the team, the car is a bit behind, the engine is a bit behind, more work has to be done on this combination if we want to challenge for the world title next year.”

Verstappen senior continues: “We are very concerned if there will be any improvement in the short term, we will talk to the team to see what can be done. We depend on the equipment we get and at the moment it is not good enough.”

Asked if it is discouraging now and then, Jos answers: “Seeing Max’ performance, put him in a good car and he will challenge for the world championship. We are now working with Red Bull for a couple of years, but it still does not look that we will be able to challenge for the world title next year. Looking at the last couple of races it seems that we will be half a second short in Japan. Of course we will try everything to close the gap, but half a second you cannot catch up in two weeks’ time. The expectation was to close the gap to the competition, but at the moment it does not look like it. We have to work hard to close the gap, otherwise next year will be lost too.”
That doesn't sound good! :(
I think that sometimes he talks too much. Heads down and be a team, please.
I sometimes think the same. The closest he was to a F1 champion was punting one off the track. Max is already far better than he ever dreamed of being, give him some support not down him all the time.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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Sieper
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Joined: 14 Mar 2017, 15:19

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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I agree, I hope this is just giving pressure, but I don’t like the sound of it either. Max must stay at RedBull and together with Honda make it a succes. It might be hard now but I do actually feel they have made steps.

shingles
shingles
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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I didn’t follow RBR closely before the Honda partnership. Was Jos this way before with Renault?

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Sieper
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Jos is Jos. He can be galant at times and at others it seems like almost short sighted. Then again, I have no idea what is a sound strategy, this would not be my way. Yes, in the Renault days he could be the same.

Also, it wasn’t dreadfull what he said, we mustn’t overdo it. Just the confidence seems low at this point. Mine is still higher.

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TNTHead
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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I think the goals set by Red Bull at the beginning of the season were just that: close the gap by the end of the season so we can fight next year. It is not end of season yet, but i can understand some disappointment. There many positives to say, but second half of the season is up untill now a bit underwhelming isn't it?
I mean, RB15 lacks quite some things, otherwise Singapore would be better.

Just hoping that they can find something, especially on the chassis side. I think Honda is doing great.

KiLLu12258
KiLLu12258
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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TNTHead wrote:
01 Oct 2019, 07:48
I think the goals set by Red Bull at the beginning of the season were just that: close the gap by the end of the season so we can fight next year. It is not end of season yet, but i can understand some disappointment. There many positives to say, but second half of the season is up untill now a bit underwhelming isn't it?
I mean, RB15 lacks quite some things, otherwise Singapore would be better.

Just hoping that they can find something, especially on the chassis side. I think Honda is doing great.
Its the same every year for Redbull. The biggest issue is the start of the season for them. They dont get the car right. Last year they improved the car the best of the top teams, this year they were faster with improving it but it seems like they fall behind again a bit.

Crucial for them is to finally come with a working car to melbourne. And that was the clear goal from them, as they shifted the dates to a earlier point to have more time to understand the car, but it worked not out like they hoped.
There skill to improve over the season is on top.

McMika98
McMika98
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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shingles wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 23:06
I didn’t follow RBR closely before the Honda partnership. Was Jos this way before with Renault?
Whats the deal with not being able to criticise Honda? He clearly said both car and engine. More car after the break, so if the engine and car isnt as expected then hell he can say what he wants. Max has matured as a driver and his prime time is now. If he does not win championship in few years the resurgence of Leclrec and rise of the Russels, Norris will make it challenging for him. Jos can see that.
Anyways expexting Ferari to be beatable in Japan, Merc should be the competition. Anything less than 1-2 or double podium will ne disapointing.

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Marti_EF3
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Sochi Gap Chart

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Race pace

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Stint 1

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Stint 2&3

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Sector Times

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RonDennis
RonDennis
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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KiLLu12258 wrote:
01 Oct 2019, 07:52
TNTHead wrote:
01 Oct 2019, 07:48
I think the goals set by Red Bull at the beginning of the season were just that: close the gap by the end of the season so we can fight next year. It is not end of season yet, but i can understand some disappointment. There many positives to say, but second half of the season is up untill now a bit underwhelming isn't it?
I mean, RB15 lacks quite some things, otherwise Singapore would be better.

Just hoping that they can find something, especially on the chassis side. I think Honda is doing great.
Its the same every year for Redbull. The biggest issue is the start of the season for them. They dont get the car right. Last year they improved the car the best of the top teams, this year they were faster with improving it but it seems like they fall behind again a bit.

Crucial for them is to finally come with a working car to melbourne. And that was the clear goal from them, as they shifted the dates to a earlier point to have more time to understand the car, but it worked not out like they hoped.
There skill to improve over the season is on top.
Well, at least they were closing the gap in the last few years. Now they are losing the development race as well.

Sieper wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 23:56
Jos is Jos. He can be galant at times and at others it seems like almost short sighted. Then again, I have no idea what is a sound strategy, this would not be my way. Yes, in the Renault days he could be the same.

Also, it wasn’t dreadfull what he said, we mustn’t overdo it. Just the confidence seems low at this point. Mine is still higher.

It's pretty clear: put pressure on Red Bull. Something has to change, because it will not take long before the Verstappen family get's really sour. I certainly wouldn't call him short sighted.

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nzjrs
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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RonDennis wrote:
01 Oct 2019, 16:23

Well, at least they were closing the gap in the last few years. Now they are losing the development race as well.
I don't entirely agree with you, and AFAICT this season doesn't agree with you on the change, and the rate of change.

From reddit. I don't love the graph, I would like to see such a chart for the other years I guess, or even time relative to 1st position, nevertheless I found it showed something.

https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... 8_vs_2019/

Image

hasika
hasika
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Joined: 30 Nov 2017, 04:12

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Just saw some interesting data.
In qualifying,if you compared the cars performance(Ferrari,Mercedes,RBR and Renault)in the second straight,from T10 exit until brake zone before T13.
Ferrari was on a different level,but RBR was the second fastest,they was faster than Mercedes,Renault was slowest.Of course the straight line speed was also affected by the DF levels and drag level,so maybe this cant say anything.But from 240kph to 325kph,the acceleration was also better than Mercedes too.Personally, i think power is OK in qualifying.
So now the situation is that even you are not losing time to Mercedes in the straight(maybe even faster),you cant beat them.This is really frustrating.

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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shingles wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 23:06
I didn’t follow RBR closely before the Honda partnership. Was Jos this way before with Renault?
Jos is towards Redbull, as Redbull has been towards Renault.

marmer
marmer
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Joined: 21 Apr 2017, 06:48

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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NL_Fer wrote:
01 Oct 2019, 20:12
shingles wrote:
30 Sep 2019, 23:06
I didn’t follow RBR closely before the Honda partnership. Was Jos this way before with Renault?
Jos is towards Redbull, as Redbull has been towards Renault.
by most accounts isn't Jos awlays difficult to deal with and always was as a driver

dxpetrov
dxpetrov
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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nzjrs wrote:
01 Oct 2019, 16:43
RonDennis wrote:
01 Oct 2019, 16:23

Well, at least they were closing the gap in the last few years. Now they are losing the development race as well.
I don't entirely agree with you, and AFAICT this season doesn't agree with you on the change, and the rate of change.

From reddit. I don't love the graph, I would like to see such a chart for the other years I guess, or even time relative to 1st position, nevertheless I found it showed something.

https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... 8_vs_2019/

https://i.imgur.com/Yy9Oy5R.png
You can use any diagram you want, but the reality is the RBR are doing worse than they did last and previous year, pace wise.

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nzjrs
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Joined: 07 Jan 2015, 11:21
Location: Redacted

Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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dxpetrov wrote:
02 Oct 2019, 06:32
nzjrs wrote:
01 Oct 2019, 16:43
RonDennis wrote:
01 Oct 2019, 16:23

Well, at least they were closing the gap in the last few years. Now they are losing the development race as well.
I don't entirely agree with you, and AFAICT this season doesn't agree with you on the change, and the rate of change.

From reddit. I don't love the graph, I would like to see such a chart for the other years I guess, or even time relative to 1st position, nevertheless I found it showed something.

https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... 8_vs_2019/

https://i.imgur.com/Yy9Oy5R.png
You can use any diagram you want, but the reality is the RBR are doing worse than they did last and previous year, pace wise.
I said I don't love the chart, but regardless, I'm amazed how an adult human can live in the world by the mantra expressed in your comment.