2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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mclaren111
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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FW17 wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:47 am
mclaren111 wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:15 pm
Takes away the mistery of team's developments which is such a nice aspect of F1...

F1 is becoming Indycar... :x :x

WTF are you talking about?

Image


This is ridiculous... Comes from Indycar... And the new rules are so restrictive that F1 is becoming to much like Indycar...

toraabe
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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If someone are able to come up with a aero device that is sealing the floor like sliding skirts... Then... But I doubt

CMSMJ1
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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mclaren111 wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:47 am
FW17 wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:47 am
mclaren111 wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:15 pm
Takes away the mistery of team's developments which is such a nice aspect of F1...

F1 is becoming Indycar... :x :x

WTF are you talking about?

https://preview.redd.it/eaq4mjopvn981.j ... 999aa2ec74


This is ridiculous... Comes from Indycar... And the new rules are so restrictive that F1 is becoming to much like Indycar...
There are far too many "should" and not enough "shall" for that to really be implemented in that way, IMO. The FIA won't really have resource to review and check every panel, flick, winglet or flap - so I would suggest this becomes a photo opportunity at the first rounds and is then dropped - unworkable and not desirable to the 'average non-technical' fan.

Anyways...the cars are different..the boxes allowing for design and development are smaller (which is a shame) but until there is a spec chassis and no development of it, it is not true to call it Indycar, surely?
IMPERATOR REX ANGLORUM

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mclaren111
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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CMSMJ1 wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:53 am
mclaren111 wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:47 am
FW17 wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:47 am



WTF are you talking about?

https://preview.redd.it/eaq4mjopvn981.j ... 999aa2ec74


This is ridiculous... Comes from Indycar... And the new rules are so restrictive that F1 is becoming to much like Indycar...
There are far too many "should" and not enough "shall" for that to really be implemented in that way, IMO. The FIA won't really have resource to review and check every panel, flick, winglet or flap - so I would suggest this becomes a photo opportunity at the first rounds and is then dropped - unworkable and not desirable to the 'average non-technical' fan.

Anyways...the cars are different..the boxes allowing for design and development are smaller (which is a shame) but until there is a spec chassis and no development of it, it is not true to call it Indycar, surely?

Didn't call it Indycar... I said it's becoming Like Indycar too quickly...

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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Is it me or do I have the feeling these 2022 mocks and renders of the cars makes me think these cars behave like F2 cars, but with a lot more power behind it?

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FW17
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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FE cars are also GE cars

Image
Image

Much closer to F1 2022 than Indycar which really does not have a inlet section

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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FW17 wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:55 pm
FE cars are also GE cars

Image
Image

Much closer to F1 2022 than Indycar which really does not have a inlet section
I’d say formula Es closer to indycar and f2 than the f1 tunnels. It’s flat before the diffuser.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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CMSMJ1 wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:36 am
jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:38 am
Hoffman900 wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:23 pm
Curious if the design principal of these cars leads to more instances of debris being thrown at a trailing driver.
wouldn't think so. There was more little bits with the bargeboards and pre-2019 front wings. The "floor edge wings" may not last the full race though.
Do the regs preclude these floor edge things becoming as developed as the toothy and organic bargeboards we've got used to? Have they always to present a smooth edge?

I think the first few cars we see dangling on cranes or the spare floors in the back of the garage will furnish considerable excitement in these pages. Surely we'll see some interesting design.
Yeah the first driver to bin their car and get a crane lift will not be popular 😂

The edge wings are very prescribed to not be “toothy”.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

mzso
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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Zynerji wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:58 pm
mzso wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:05 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:18 pm
I'm surprised that we haven't talked about the real elephant in the aerodynamic design room...

Machine learning, iterative design software that "explores" everything legal within the minimum and maximum dimensions.

I wish the teams shared more about this stuff.
I think what you're thinking of are called evolutionary algorithms. But they certainly don't explore "everything", because that's impossible, it would be practically infinite.
By definition. Having a minimum and a maximum sets boundaries that are finite.

Just because the number is big does not mean that it goes on forever.

With enough computation, just reducing the possible upgrade paths is worth its weight in gold.
Even within a boundary it's practically infinite. Just think of many places a nook, cranny or nodule can have a notable effect.
It's mere combinatorical explosion. A chessboard only has 32 pieces and 64 squares, yet it's impossible to calculate the best move.
You can bring in a variety of heuristics, but that's the opposite of exploring "everything".

mzso
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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wogx wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:07 pm
https://preview.redd.it/eaq4mjopvn981.j ... 999aa2ec74
* ̶F̶o̶r̶c̶e̶ ̶I̶n̶d̶i̶a̶ AM enters the chat*
I guess development will be even more focused on the underside, to hide details. I doubt they'll display the cars on their sides.
Also they might start using camouflage as a habit on sensitive parts. Something like vantablack with irregular streaks bright structurally colored white.
mclaren111 wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:15 pm
Takes away the mistery of team's developments which is such a nice aspect of F1...

F1 is becoming Indycar... :x :x
This is your response to everything. From sponsor stickers to engine, to tv broadcasts. :)
jjn9128 wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:23 pm
I don't believe teams will actually tell anything of significance with the show. Anything they do say will be worse than a motorsport.com comment section level engineering.
But it would be visible wouldn't it? At least the parts that are not under the car. The competition wouldn't need explanation.

mzso
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:38 am
Hoffman900 wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:23 pm
Curious if the design principal of these cars leads to more instances of debris being thrown at a trailing driver.
wouldn't think so. There was more little bits with the bargeboards and pre-2019 front wings. The "floor edge wings" may not last the full race though.
By the way, was the (micron range) thin foil to hold together composite rubble forgotten by now?

Do you think damage from side-impacts (which has gotten common) would be terminal now? (Meaning the car would be seconds slower because of damage to sensitive parts.)
CMSMJ1 wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:36 am
I think the first few cars we see dangling on cranes or the spare floors in the back of the garage will furnish considerable excitement in these pages. Surely we'll see some interesting design.
Well, the cranes might help (unless camo painting comes into play) , outside of that I doubt we'll have much chance to see. I think the teams will go out of their way to cover hide this stuff now.

mzso
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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toraabe wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:48 am
If someone are able to come up with a aero device that is sealing the floor like sliding skirts... Then... But I doubt
"Then" what?

My expectation is that everyone will focus a lot of effort on improving the seal by airflow and vortices, in the lack of a mechanical barrier.
I wonder though if that will bring back much of the danger of the sealed floor. When a transient disruption of airflow can cause a huge drop in downforce.
WaikeCU wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:41 am
Is it me or do I have the feeling these 2022 mocks and renders of the cars makes me think these cars behave like F2 cars, but with a lot more power behind it?
Why? F2 is not underside-downforce oriented, as far as I know. (Though with time it will surely start mimicing F1.)

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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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mzso wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:33 pm
Why? F2 is not underside-downforce oriented, as far as I know. (Though with time it will surely start mimicing F1.)
F2 is a GE formula for sure. No idea how advanced, but just to look at them - they run a very flat rake and do have an enviable capacity to follow one another.
IMPERATOR REX ANGLORUM

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mclaren111
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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mzso wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:12 pm
wogx wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:07 pm
https://preview.redd.it/eaq4mjopvn981.j ... 999aa2ec74
* ̶F̶o̶r̶c̶e̶ ̶I̶n̶d̶i̶a̶ AM enters the chat*
I guess development will be even more focused on the underside, to hide details. I doubt they'll display the cars on their sides.
Also they might start using camouflage as a habit on sensitive parts. Something like vantablack with irregular streaks bright structurally colored white.
mclaren111 wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:15 pm
Takes away the mistery of team's developments which is such a nice aspect of F1...

F1 is becoming Indycar... :x :x
This is your response to everything. From sponsor stickers to engine, to tv broadcasts. :)
jjn9128 wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:23 pm
I don't believe teams will actually tell anything of significance with the show. Anything they do say will be worse than a motorsport.com comment section level engineering.
But it would be visible wouldn't it? At least the parts that are not under the car. The competition wouldn't need explanation.

Because it's true...

What do you mean by sponsor stickers ?

mzso
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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mclaren111 wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:47 pm
What do you mean by sponsor stickers ?
It's a part of everthing. If they'd announced some change relating to stickers, you'd be screaming "indycar". :)