2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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mzso
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:02 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:50 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:44 pm
Also probably illegal. I hope what teams come up with will look more purposeful than styled but I’m not super optimistic.

We’ll see.
I think the teams proved function over form with the 2012 d*ck noses...🤣
2014. 2012 was the year of the platypus 😂
Interestingly the non-penis nosed cars were the most successful. (Mercedes, Red Bull, maybe Ferrari, but their engine was very poor.)

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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yes very interesting that the teams with the most money ended most competitively...
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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Zynerji
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:11 pm
yes very interesting that the teams with the most money ended most competitively...
🤣 It's a real conspiracy!

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:07 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:23 pm
Why would the air move from a region of low pressure to a region of high pressure?
It doesn't, it always goes from high to low. You create higher than atmospheric pressure by moving through the air. The air fills the space you leave as you displace the air via turbulence, as that is the quickest way to return to atmospheric equilibrium.

https://www.simscale.com/api/v1/project ... ssible.png

A vortex needs energy to sustain itself, the tendency of air will be to come to rest and become "static" pressure if no energy is added to it. If you add energy to the air by displacing it, in the proper way, you get a vortex. The low and high pressure components are separated and in equilibrium because of the energy being fed into the system.

The vortices are generated by differential pressure across a device e.g. the Y250 is generated by the discontinuity formed where the central mandated neutral section of the front wing meets the inner end of the active part of the front wing. Here, the air is being accelerated by the wing and air is drawn laterally in to this air across the lower surface of the neutral section. So we have lateral movement that starts the vortex.

The end of the neutral section is visible here, for example:
Image

Once the air leaves the rear edge of this device, that's it. It starts to deteriorate by what is effectively a boundary layer drag between the spinning core and the "still" air around it. No additional energy is being added until the vortex meets a similar vortex being generated by a different device elsewhere on the car e.g. the bargeboard. By creating a number of similar vortices, the devices on the bargeboard have an additive effect on the main vortex. This helps to keep the Y250 vortex going and with sufficient spin to help direct air around the car.

Keep in mind that these vortices are short lived beasties. They traverse the entire length of the car in a fraction of a second, and once they leave the last vortex generating surface behind, they start to deteriorate, and soon burst and disperse in to ever smaller eddies. At racing speeds, the air leaving the trailing edge of the front wing is behind the rear of the car in 0.1s or less.

I assume your water jet video is trying to show that you can spin up the vortices that way too. You can use a lateral jet but it would need to be in a container such as a vortex dust extractor. If you just blow air at an unrestrained vortex, it'll just move laterally and, of course, lose some of its coherence.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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godlameroso
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Well you have a container in the venturi tunnels with the 2022 cars and you have the floor fences which will undoubtedly create vortices. You have enough fences that you can make a pair of vortices that can interact, might be interesting to experiment with the pressure waves that happen when counter rotating vortices collide before the throat.
Saishū kōnā

mzso
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:11 pm
yes very interesting that the teams with the most money ended most competitively...
More like that they knew that a less offensive design works better. :)

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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mzso wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:04 am
jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:11 pm
yes very interesting that the teams with the most money ended most competitively...
More like that they knew that a less offensive design works better. :)
I dunno. That Caterham though 😘👌
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Who was it asking about this sort of 'moustache' front wing? This is as high as you can get the nose tip and wing within their respective volumes.
Image
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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Stu
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:43 pm
Who was it asking about this sort of 'moustache' front wing? This is as high as you can get the nose tip and wing within their respective volumes.
https://db3pap006files.storage.live.com ... pmode=none
That looks as though it would work nicely with the floor
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:43 pm
Who was it asking about this sort of 'moustache' front wing? This is as high as you can get the nose tip and wing within their respective volumes.
https://db3pap006files.storage.live.com ... pmode=none
I can see the lower one, or a variation, being the go to design.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:15 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:43 pm
Who was it asking about this sort of 'moustache' front wing? This is as high as you can get the nose tip and wing within their respective volumes.
https://db3pap006files.storage.live.com ... pmode=none
I can see the lower one, or a variation, being the go to design.
Will be interesting to see the balance of downforce vs "clean" air to the tunnels. I think somewhere in the middle may be the way to go, but we'll see. I want to do a load of CFD but I've got about 50 variations of nose and front wing to try :lol:
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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BassVirolla
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:15 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:43 pm
Who was it asking about this sort of 'moustache' front wing? This is as high as you can get the nose tip and wing within their respective volumes.
https://db3pap006files.storage.live.com ... pmode=none
I can see the lower one, or a variation, being the go to design.
Also I'm thinking of trying to squat the rear at medium / high speed for lifting the front wing and increasing the AoA of the floor, moving rearwards the CP for high speed stability. And at very high speed, lowering the rear until stalling the difusser / choking the floor throat.

The suspensions are this year highly restricted, but I think that with a clever conjuction of levers and non linear springs, you can achieve a big and sudden squat of the suspension.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:34 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:15 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:43 pm
Who was it asking about this sort of 'moustache' front wing? This is as high as you can get the nose tip and wing within their respective volumes.
https://db3pap006files.storage.live.com ... pmode=none
I can see the lower one, or a variation, being the go to design.
Will be interesting to see the balance of downforce vs "clean" air to the tunnels. I think somewhere in the middle may be the way to go, but we'll see. I want to do a load of CFD but I've got about 50 variations of nose and front wing to try :lol:
When I say "lower", I mean the bottom image. I realise "lower" is confusing in this context. :oops:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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aleks_ader
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Is Mclaren 201X-ish snow plow possible? Or is same as for cape and is virtually impossible?
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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godlameroso
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Location: Miami FL

Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Stu wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:59 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:43 pm
Who was it asking about this sort of 'moustache' front wing? This is as high as you can get the nose tip and wing within their respective volumes.
https://db3pap006files.storage.live.com ... pmode=none
That looks as though it would work nicely with the floor
How would that affect the rest of the front wing?
Saishū kōnā