2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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aleks_ader wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:50 pm
Is Mclaren 201X-ish snow plow possible? Or is same as for cape and is virtually impossible?
Don’t think so, no. There would be 2 sections when sliced through some planes.
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godlameroso
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:43 pm
Who was it asking about this sort of 'moustache' front wing? This is as high as you can get the nose tip and wing within their respective volumes.
https://db3pap006files.storage.live.com ... pmode=none
Those are extremes? So anything between those two designs is legal?
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dans79
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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BassVirolla wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:35 pm
The suspensions are this year highly restricted, but I think that with a clever conjuction of levers and non linear springs, you can achieve a big and sudden squat of the suspension.
Yea, I think that's part of the reason we saw more than a few teams raise their eyebrows when Merc demonstrated some extreme squat towards the end of the 2021 season.
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BassVirolla
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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dans79 wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:59 pm
BassVirolla wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:35 pm
The suspensions are this year highly restricted, but I think that with a clever conjuction of levers and non linear springs, you can achieve a big and sudden squat of the suspension.
Yea, I think that's part of the reason we saw more than a few teams raise their eyebrows when Merc demonstrated some extreme squat towards the end of the 2021 season.
Image

A commercially available example of a linear to rotary movement mechanism.

Such conversion is not linear at the last part of the straight line movement (when the intermediate lever starts to rotate) to the point that the last millimeters don't induce rotation in the axle at all, and only makes reversing the rotary to linear conversion impossible.

Quite feasible, and practical to make a push / pull rod not twisting the torsion bar during all the suspension travel.

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theVortexCreatorY250
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:37 pm
Stu wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:59 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:43 pm
Who was it asking about this sort of 'moustache' front wing? This is as high as you can get the nose tip and wing within their respective volumes.
https://db3pap006files.storage.live.com ... pmode=none
That looks as though it would work nicely with the floor
How would that affect the rest of the front wing?
If you raise up the centre section and feed the floor more you'll need to recover front downforce on the mid or outboard section of the wing. The mid section can be tricky since you have limited suspension AOA and you still need to downwash that air to avoid stalling the top of the floor inlet.
I create vortices

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Zynerji
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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BassVirolla wrote:
Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:18 am
dans79 wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:59 pm
BassVirolla wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:35 pm
The suspensions are this year highly restricted, but I think that with a clever conjuction of levers and non linear springs, you can achieve a big and sudden squat of the suspension.
Yea, I think that's part of the reason we saw more than a few teams raise their eyebrows when Merc demonstrated some extreme squat towards the end of the 2021 season.
https://img.directindustry.com/pdf/repo ... 29_1mg.jpg

A commercially available example of a linear to rotary movement mechanism.

Such conversion is not linear at the last part of the straight line movement (when the intermediate lever starts to rotate) to the point that the last millimeters don't induce rotation in the axle at all, and only makes reversing the rotary to linear conversion impossible.

Quite feasible, and practical to make a push / pull rod not twisting the torsion bar during all the suspension travel.
I thought torsion bars were banned in 2022?🤔

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Stu
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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theVortexCreatorY250 wrote:
Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:49 am
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:37 pm
Stu wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:59 pm


That looks as though it would work nicely with the floor
How would that affect the rest of the front wing?
If you raise up the centre section and feed the floor more you'll need to recover front downforce on the mid or outboard section of the wing. The mid section can be tricky since you have limited suspension AOA and you still need to downwash that air to avoid stalling the top of the floor inlet.
It is going to be interesting to see where the most effective compromise is, hopefully there are a wide variety (I’m hoping for 10!!) of options that are all similarly effective!!!

Do you maximise the floor & use the wings to balance the car, do you compromise the flow to the floor and use the front wing more?
What will the tyres want? Will it be possible that the tyres vertical loads need to be reduced in order to achieve required tyre life?

The team that has the best handle on what the tyres need (in terms of load) will have a big advantage!!
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

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BassVirolla
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Zynerji wrote:
Fri Feb 04, 2022 1:50 am
BassVirolla wrote:
Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:18 am
dans79 wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:59 pm


Yea, I think that's part of the reason we saw more than a few teams raise their eyebrows when Merc demonstrated some extreme squat towards the end of the 2021 season.
https://img.directindustry.com/pdf/repo ... 29_1mg.jpg

A commercially available example of a linear to rotary movement mechanism.

Such conversion is not linear at the last part of the straight line movement (when the intermediate lever starts to rotate) to the point that the last millimeters don't induce rotation in the axle at all, and only makes reversing the rotary to linear conversion impossible.

Quite feasible, and practical to make a push / pull rod not twisting the torsion bar during all the suspension travel.
I thought torsion bars were banned in 2022?🤔

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Blackout
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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theVortexCreatorY250 wrote:
Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:49 am
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:37 pm
Stu wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:59 pm


That looks as though it would work nicely with the floor
How would that affect the rest of the front wing?
If you raise up the centre section and feed the floor more you'll need to recover front downforce on the mid or outboard section of the wing. The mid section can be tricky since you have limited suspension AOA and you still need to downwash that air to avoid stalling the top of the floor inlet.
I like that youtube "Tom Talks" solution: make the centre of the wing generate maximum DF by making the nose as short as possible and pulling the center section of the wing as low and forward as possible, so you can drop the mid section of the wing a bit and produce less upwash, to the benefit of the floor intakes.
So like Jin's top right and bottom right variants
Image

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:51 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:43 pm
Who was it asking about this sort of 'moustache' front wing? This is as high as you can get the nose tip and wing within their respective volumes.
https://db3pap006files.storage.live.com ... pmode=none
Those are extremes? So anything between those two designs is legal?
In terms oh height yeah
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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theVortexCreatorY250
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Blackout wrote:
Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:33 am
theVortexCreatorY250 wrote:
Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:49 am
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:37 pm


How would that affect the rest of the front wing?
If you raise up the centre section and feed the floor more you'll need to recover front downforce on the mid or outboard section of the wing. The mid section can be tricky since you have limited suspension AOA and you still need to downwash that air to avoid stalling the top of the floor inlet.
I like that youtube "Tom Talks" solution: make the centre of the wing generate maximum DF by making the nose as short as possible and pulling the center section of the wing as low and forward as possible, so you can drop the mid section of the wing a bit and produce less upwash, to the benefit of the floor intakes.
So like Jin's top right and bottom right variants
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJEwPLJXIAo ... =4096x4096
I tend to agree. It also allows you to have a more agressive underside of the chassis near the front suspension. This can be done since the elements in 'free space' can create a slot gap to the nose and energise the boundary layer beneath the nose - meaning you can make it more aggressive and make more downforce from it. This would be mainly useful for the high downforce tracks :D
I create vortices

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godlameroso
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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The narrower the nose the more airflow is going to smack the side of it, the airflow going under the nose is going to upwash and meet the inwash from the front wing elements and meet at the side of the nose. The flatter wider nose avoids this, but it has its own drawbacks. So it will be interesting to see which is the design that works the best overall. Of course, we have no idea how the endplates affect the total load produced by the wing, so we'll see.

From my data, the winglets improve the wing anywhere from 9-11% on normal airplanes, they have much larger spans, and thus the winglets form a much smaller proportion of the wing span compared to these wings. They have a bit more potential from that, but also lower potential because winglets work better when they're on the low pressure side of the wing, and these are on the high pressure side.

Some planes have double winglets on both the low and high side of the wing and it does improve efficiency, but ideally you'd want it on the low pressure side so the winglet can match the airflow tendency(upwash). The F1 wing creates a lateral downwash.
Saishū kōnā

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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After seeing the Haas car I realise the FW endplates will be a big development area. We will see really tall endplates with strange shapes and features to effect outwash and control the front trye wake. When I say tall meean the things look twice the height of last year's end plates!
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:43 pm
Who was it asking about this sort of 'moustache' front wing? This is as high as you can get the nose tip and wing within their respective volumes.
https://db3pap006files.storage.live.com ... pmode=none
Is a front mini-beam wing allowed under the tip of the nose?
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west52keep64
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:43 pm
Who was it asking about this sort of 'moustache' front wing? This is as high as you can get the nose tip and wing within their respective volumes.
https://db3pap006files.storage.live.com ... pmode=none
This is what I was thinking, basically pushing the limits of the volumes! It also doesn't look to bad in my opinion.

Speaking of pushing the limits of the volumes, the Haas solution for the sidepods has kind of shown how using the regs to encourage a particular aesthetic can backfire, and after 2014 we shouldn't really be surprised teams are going to do stuff like this!

Here are the volumes crudely overlaid on the show car, the sidepod fits nicely within the volume, and the sidepod inlet has the styled swept back design that the orange volume is obviously trying to encourage.

Image

And then we look at the Haas, which pushes the sidepod right to the front edges of the inlet volume.

Image