2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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3jawchuck
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:19 am
Air is quite full of itself....
Amusing comment, but air is pretty much nothing. Certainly not full of itself.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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strad wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:24 am
The primary aim of bargeboards is to create downwash which increases the effective angle of attach of the floor.
I would have sworn that I read they are flow conditioners to smooth the air flowing into the sidepod inlets and also out away from the sides(outwash).
The aim is to bring "clean" air from above the car down to interact with the front of the sidepods / floor. Obviously the first stage in doing that is pushing air outwards to "make room" for the clean air.
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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3jawchuck wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:49 am
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:19 am
Air is quite full of itself....
Amusing comment, but air is pretty much nothing. Certainly not full of itself.
Of course it is, air even has mass. There is static air pressure at sea level, or any other level with land, and perfect vacuums are impossible. Therefore air is always full of itself. In other words air will always try to maintain its pressure and will fight against anything trying to stop it.
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3jawchuck
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:07 pm
3jawchuck wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:49 am
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:19 am
Air is quite full of itself....
Amusing comment, but air is pretty much nothing. Certainly not full of itself.
Of course it is, air even has mass. There is static air pressure at sea level, or any other level with land, and perfect vacuums are impossible. Therefore air is always full of itself. In other words air will always try to maintain its pressure and will fight against anything trying to stop it.
Mass has nothing to do with what I'm saying. With gasses, the gaps between molecules are a couple of orders of magnitude larger than the molecules themselves. In those gaps is nothing, so, air is pretty much nothing. That's why gasses are so readily compressible.

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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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3jawchuck wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:21 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:07 pm
3jawchuck wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:49 am


Amusing comment, but air is pretty much nothing. Certainly not full of itself.
Of course it is, air even has mass. There is static air pressure at sea level, or any other level with land, and perfect vacuums are impossible. Therefore air is always full of itself. In other words air will always try to maintain its pressure and will fight against anything trying to stop it.
Mass has nothing to do with what I'm saying. With gasses, the gaps between molecules are a couple of orders of magnitude larger than the molecules themselves. In those gaps is nothing, so, air is pretty much nothing. That's why gasses are so readily compressible.
This is true like most of those who are full of themselves air has little substance, and is easily worked up. With a little push it literally blows up.
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maunde
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:00 pm
3jawchuck wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:21 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:07 pm


Of course it is, air even has mass. There is static air pressure at sea level, or any other level with land, and perfect vacuums are impossible. Therefore air is always full of itself. In other words air will always try to maintain its pressure and will fight against anything trying to stop it.
Mass has nothing to do with what I'm saying. With gasses, the gaps between molecules are a couple of orders of magnitude larger than the molecules themselves. In those gaps is nothing, so, air is pretty much nothing. That's why gasses are so readily compressible.
This is true like most of those who are full of themselves air has little substance, and is easily worked up. With a little push it literally blows up.
Eh, while your original metaphor was neat, the rest are actually somewhat confusing - sounding more like riddles that aren't helping. Unless ofcourse I am misunderstanding. :D
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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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maunde wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:17 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:00 pm
3jawchuck wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:21 pm


Mass has nothing to do with what I'm saying. With gasses, the gaps between molecules are a couple of orders of magnitude larger than the molecules themselves. In those gaps is nothing, so, air is pretty much nothing. That's why gasses are so readily compressible.
This is true like most of those who are full of themselves air has little substance, and is easily worked up. With a little push it literally blows up.
Eh, while your original metaphor was neat, the rest are actually somewhat confusing - sounding more like riddles that aren't helping. Unless ofcourse I am misunderstanding. :D
Air in a cylinder will move up when pushed by a piston. Air will ignite due to the oxygen content, I agree with the person I was responding to fully. Yes the majority of matter is composed of empty space, even more so with a gas, however air tries to remain at it's ideal pressure due to the mass of air above it pressing down and in all directions. The reason we have air pressure is because of the mass of air sitting above it.
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astracrazy
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:26 am
jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:02 pm
strad wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:40 pm
The barge boards push the air off to the sides. Outwash. And that creates the disturbed air that hinders passing. :wink:
The primary aim of bargeboards is to create downwash which increases the effective angle of attach of the floor.
djos wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:47 pm
With Venturi tunnels you don’t want the air pushed to the sides of the car, you want as much as possible fed into the tunnels. Imo barge boards would be counter productive if used with the 2021 Design.
The vanes at the front edge of the floor are quite aggressively cambered outwards too!
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... -floor.jpg
Looking at the 2021 concept given the narrower front tires, weaker front wing, weaker rear wing, and much stronger diffuser and floor leading section, I see huge balance issues. Massive oversteer followed by massive understeer at speed, a set up nightmare getting the ride height correct at the right speed ranges. Not to mention that ride height will be massively critical, and getting the rake of the cars will make or break your season. The floor will generate most of the downforce, and the AOA that floor works at will be even more important than before.
Im pretty sure with the amount of simulations the cars wont be that unbalanced.

MatsNorway
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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With the lack of endplates downforce in the rear will slip away a bit earlier tho. That could get interesting
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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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MatsNorway wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:04 am
With the lack of endplates downforce in the rear will slip away a bit earlier tho. That could get interesting
There's no top surface end plates, but there are end plates.
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FW17
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Will shaped rear wings defeat the purpose of not having end plates?

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MatsNorway
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Not replace. But there might be some attempt if the rules allow to get some of it back.
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strad
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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I sure hate to dispute the aero experts but while watching practice 1 today it sure looked like the barge boards pushed the spray outwards. Some down, some up but mostly out to the sides.?.? :?
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maunde
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Outwards and up, down or laterally?
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MatsNorway
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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strad wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:25 am
I sure hate to dispute the aero experts but while watching practice 1 today it sure looked like the barge boards pushed the spray outwards. Some down, some up but mostly out to the sides.?.? :?
Have people claimed anything else?

When Renault mounted the exhaust in the front it too went to the sides. By running the air out to the sides you make the floor work better as it gets to work harder trying to suck air back in under. Same but different to blown diffuser where the air gets blown out of it faster.
je suis charlie

A touch of genius is the simplest thing.


DRS is like supports on a bicycle[/size]